Tuner question

[skinner41]

I have a 2010 H3T 3.7 with 315/75r16 and wondering what kind of tuner would be the best.I have looked at bullydog but could not find any that would fit.Thanks

 

[poweraidon]

Pcm tune


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[digglesworth]

Send your pcm to pcmofnc.... That seems like the most hassle-free option. They do good work... I'm happy with mine. The other option is custom tune with hp tuners but you need someone with the software and knows what they're doing.

 

[Airborne]

There are a few choices for PCM tunes. pcmofnc, supermodulation from the colorado forums, predator inc, or someone local to you.

I went with the supermodulation tune then eventually just bought hptuners my self so I could adjust what ever I wanted to after that. If you have the money I would go that route. All of the tunes from any mail order will only be about 80-85%. There are far too many variables with your specific vehicle, your specific geographic area, your expectations, driving habits etc etc. to get any closer unless you do data logging.

I chose the supermodulation route because of cost and ease of use, my truck is my daily driver so I needed a loaner pcm to still get around. He had every one else beat as far as that went; $150 for the tune and the loaner PCM. Couldn't beat that as some people wanted $200 just for the tune. I was happy with the tune from supermodulation and we talked for about 1.5 hours going over every scenario and what I wanted exactly from the tune.

Based on the info I gave him it was pretty damn good and really close to what I wanted but in the end really wanted to be right on so I bought the system myself.

 

[Renagade132]

I have the Edge Evolution CTS and it works great! I think its one of the best units out there.

 

[scoreh3]

I have a Hypertech Max Energy part # 32004 ( they changed part number and this is listed as one for a new body GM and 6.0lL trailblazer SSR. It has the 3.7 settings) and I like it . You can tune,adj tire size,shift rpms and list of other mods .

 

[06 H3]

I had no idea a tuner existed for the inline 5. Does this work on 06s?

 

[06 H3]

Damn it they didn't have one listed for 06/07 but in 08 they switched the electrical systems correct?

 

[Steve #1]

Damn it they didn't have one listed for 06/07 but in 08 they switched the electrical systems correct?

The data protocol switched to CAN in 08 and I believe the ECM and TCM were combined in to one unit.

 

[chaos254]

Pcm and tcm are seperate in 08

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[Airborne]

The data protocol switched to CAN in 08 and I believe the ECM and TCM were combined in to one unit.

Opposite of this. 06-07 the PCM/TCM were one unit, the PCM controled both. In 08 and on they switched to PCM and TCM each doing their own thing.

 

[06 H3]

so the a max energy tuner wont work for me? I am an 06.

 

[amrg]

I remember reading somewhere earlier that it doesn't work. Offcourse you could ask directly...

 

[Airborne]

For that price why wouldn't you get hp tuners? Then you have a real tuner and can get real data logs and change what ever you want.

 

[06 H3]

I have considered the hp tuners how much is it? It's downloadable on a Mac correct?

 

[amrg]

I got t for 450, the pro is more expensive (allows for wideband sensors to be added and can log data using the device without the need of a laptop)

 

[Airborne]

Ya that is msrp. You will be very hard pressed to find it cheaper than that. I got Pro version through a dealer of hp tuners and he gave me a deal lower than the $650 msrp for the pro version which I jumped on.

The thing I like about hp tuners is you can change EVERYTHING in relation to the PCM. With this thread I looked at those hyper tech things. holy cow my jaw dropped on how much they can't do for how much they cost.

For example.... With my hp tuners I was able to delete all association with the 2nd O2 sensor on the exhaust, ignore all errors in relation to that sensor right at the PCM. Which means no check engine light when I threw my header in and literally just cut my second O2 sensor off and left it on my stock manifold.
I have changed all my shift points, and throttle position percentage with each one of those shift points. Both shifting up and down. Which means (long story short) it has helped given me a much better drive and more fuel eco as I can stay in a higher gear with out down shifting so much which keeps my rpms down=more fuel eco. Then I have changed the maf freq ratings (allowing more air into the engine), fuel injector lbs rate, shift firmness and other a bunch of other stuff I can't recall right now. I am running at 12.3 AFR after 2500 rpms and Stoich below that. A slightly richer than Stoich AFR means more hp. Usually 10-15% richer actually.
Any way there is so much you can change, adjust, delete, modify, or tweek with HP tuners I could be here all day. The biggest thing that I like is the scan tool. You get real time knock sensor readings, real time afr readings, exact engine coolant temps the list goes on and on. So you can really see how your engine is running.
For the money compared to what the hpt can do vs that hyper toy there is no comparison. No brainer for me

 

[digglesworth]

Dang man. You seem like you really tweaked everything... I wonder how that compares to my tune. Are you able to save your configurations and flash them to anyone's pcm.... The altitude may have a little different effect on how your truck performs with it vs someone else's at a different altitude...

 

[amrg]

Dang man. You seem like you really tweaked everything... I wonder how that compares to my tune. Are you able to save your configurations and flash them to anyone's pcm.... The altitude may have a little different effect on how your truck performs with it vs someone else's at a different altitude...

the hptuners allows you to compare all the changes with the original stock file. so if a flash can't be done (due to diff VIN) you can copy the parameters and edit your tune manually.
However, the hptuners tune file is very vehicle specific (esp if he fine tuned it on his truck) meaning that it has to be fine tuned on ur truck to get you the best results.
Btw the altitude has a great effect because of the amount of oxygen in the air (you may be getting more or less air depending on the difference) and this results in different timings, etc... which means that your truck would need to be fine tuned diff than his.

 

[Airborne]

the hptuners allows you to compare all the changes with the original stock file. so if a flash can't be done (due to diff VIN) you can copy the parameters and edit your tune manually.
However, the hptuners tune file is very vehicle specific (esp if he fine tuned it on his truck) meaning that it has to be fine tuned on ur truck to get you the best results.
Btw the altitude has a great effect because of the amount of oxygen in the air (you may be getting more or less air depending on the difference) and this results in different timings, etc... which means that your truck would need to be fine tuned diff than his.

Exactly. In fact no my tune would not be good digglesworth's truck at all. I have a 3.7L and have the air in take adjusted for two things different than what you have. Much higher altitude and I have a Jet maf sensor. My regular cruising altitude varies from 4200 ft to 5000 ft then when I hit the trails here I'm above 6k easy. Much thinner air than IL. Which means I need more of it to reach the same O2 level as the Cali guys. Fine tuning that balance comes from data logging. Then you: Tune-check. Tune-check. Until you are right on the money.

Again don't get me wrong mail order tunes can get you close but to get the most power and hopefully more fuel eco you have to do data logs and adjust your tune for your vehicle and for the way you drive.

But yes you can save your config files. In fact I have close to 30 different tunes saved. Every time I change something or a few parameters I save a new file so I can go back if I need to. All the way back to stock. Also yes you can go off the parameters and mimic someone else's file but the actual config files are specific to my VIN. So they wouldn't even download to your PCM. We would have to make a file specific to your truck then adjust the parameters from there.

 

[amrg]

Exactly. In fact no my tune would not be good digglesworth's truck at all. I have a 3.7L and have the air in take adjusted for two things different than what you have. Much higher altitude and I have a Jet maf sensor. My regular cruising altitude varies from 4200 ft to 5000 ft then when I hit the trails here I'm above 6k easy. Much thinner air than IL. Which means I need more of it to reach the same O2 level as the Cali guys. Fine tuning that balance comes from data logging. Then you: Tune-check. Tune-check. Until you are right on the money.

Again don't get me wrong mail order tunes can get you close but to get the most power and hopefully more fuel eco you have to do data logs and adjust your tune for your vehicle and for the way you drive.

But yes you can save your config files. In fact I have close to 30 different tunes saved. Every time I change something or a few parameters I save a new file so I can go back if I need to. All the way back to stock. Also yes you can go off the parameters and mimic someone else's file but the actual config files are specific to my VIN. So they wouldn't even download to your PCM. We would have to make a file specific to your truck then adjust the parameters from there.

Im not very well informed on how to fine tune, I had pcmofnc do that for me. They did the basic + 3 fine tunes based on datalogs Ive sent em. Ive sone some reading and learned that Id have to keep looking at my KR tables and copy them to somewhere and re-tune. Is thay what you've been doing for re-tunes?

 

[Airborne]

Im not very well informed on how to fine tune, I had pcmofnc do that for me. They did the basic + 3 fine tunes based on datalogs Ive sent em. Ive sone some reading and learned that Id have to keep looking at my KR tables and copy them to somewhere and re-tune. Is thay what you've been doing for re-tunes?

Kind of. So yes you want to keep an eye on you KR tables. (Knock Retard for those reading and don't know what the hell we are talking about )
But those aren't everything I am looking at. For example when I had the idea that I "needed" one step colder plugs because I was running "so much more hp now vs stock"... Well I threw the plugs in and got a seriously rough idle, it sounded mean and loapy but still rough. I threw on my scanner to see what I was advancing and it was something like 40*. To prevent knock of course. So I checked my kr histogram and had zero knock. Which is good and that is what the PCM is supposed to do. You really shouldn't ever have much knock. Most cases your PCM is going to start advancing or retarding ignition to prevent knock once it thinks it will get it or it starts to get it. Again which is a good thing. You can advance your timing little by little manually which usually will give you "free" hp then when you get knock back it off a few degrees. That is done manually so your PCM will only compensate to your lowest timing thresh that you input. So don't start advancing like 10* then drive it for 2 weeks before you scan and you find out you have been getting some serious knock the whole time.

Common sense but some people do it.
There are some things online that can give you an idea about tuning better, the hp tuners site is FULL of info. Greg banish wrote the best book I have gotten ahold of so far about tuning. he covers other things which helps someone even not exactly perfectly knowledgable on "how" a modern combustion engine actually works get much better informed. So from the basic learned all the way up to intermediate to low advanced I would say his book covers just about everything. There is another book I bought that was pure horse sh!t. I don't want to smear it any more I already wrote a scathing review on amazon about it. But to sum it up banish wrote the best concise tuning book I have come across.

The best thing to play around with that I have found the H3 needs is a good afr that it likes to get the most hp. Here where I am 12.3-12.5:1 afr is perfect for me. And ironically I get the best mileage at that afr too.
Rambling again... Ok I'm done
**Disclaimer: for the guys reading this that don't have hp tuners and venture over to their site be prepared to have just about everything go over your head. Tuning isn't extremely difficult but it does take a little home work. I read the HP tuners site for weeks before I got the tuner for myself. I was very scared it was going to be hard to pick up but once it's in your hands vs reading other people do this and that it makes A LOT more sense.

 

[ReconH3]

Great info Arborne! I was looking at the Banish books but there a ton of them, which is the one you would recommend? This is something I would like to get into some day.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

 

[digglesworth]

Thanks for the info. I don't have enough knowledge about this stuff to start playing around with this by myself. Maybe one day.

 

[Airborne]

Great info Arborne! I was looking at the Banish books but there a ton of them, which is the one you would recommend? This is something I would like to get into some day.

"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Thanks. I hope some of the info makes sense.
The Banish book I read at was this:
http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Management-Advanced-Greg-Banish/dp/1932494421
There are about 10-15 pages on actual tuning. It may not sound like a lot but it is far more than I have ever come across in any one location. You have to understand that there are people out there that make money on this knowledge. So they guard it pretty closely. If everyone knew how to tune, there would be a lot of money lost by people that make a living on tuning. That's where the home work part of it comes in. Looking into multiple sources and picking brains of those who have been there and done it is the way to get started in this.
It is by no means impossible or incredibly difficult. The difficult part is trying to get the secrets from the people that have the info and knowledge already. I had the great opportunity to learn from James (aka "supermodulation" on the colorado forums). He was/is great and pointed me in the right direction and got me started, which like I said is very rare for people with that knowledge to do, and shows his character.

I will say it again, if there are people out there that are interested in tuning then do it! There is some homework involved but not more than would be to do some of the mods many people have already done to their trucks. The main problem in tuning is there are many many people that don't want it to be popular, don't want everyone to know that it is very possible for the average person to pick up and learn. I will tell you that it is possible and with a little patience just about everyone can do it. It may not be for everyone though. That falls into the category of why Jiffy Lube's still exist, some people just would rather have someone else do it and not worry about it.

I'm more into learning myself and being able to adjust whatever I want whenever. Being able to change gear ratios if I need to, adjust for tire size changes if I need to, adjust PE tables (power enrichment) when I am going to tow, adjust shift points for towing vs around town driving etc etc. It makes too much sense for me to do it myself. Plus to have ONE unit that can tune multiple vehicles, actually any GM vehicle. So when I get my Alpha this year, I won't need to buy a new tuner. When I get my Camaro in the next 5 years I won't need a new tuner.

Another long post I know.