Steering Rack Comprison

[08H3]

I know there have been some issues in the steering rack threads with vendors vs. non-vendors, etc. I don't want to create any more arguments, but since I don't have any affiliation with any of the manufacturers, I feel it's safe for me to ask for an honest comparison. What are the pros and cons of this (http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/for...grade-and-changing-a-steering-rack-on-a-Alpha) and the Scorpworks? Both look like really solid designs.

 

[backcountryislife]

pcf

Mayhem:

Not sure on the significance of the back 1/2 of the Scorpworks one sticking down a bit? They don't strike me as the type to do something like that without a reason, I'm assuming it catches the lip below the clamping surface to increase grab? Both appear to be a very solid clamp setup, I'd want the bushings for the other side as well, as IMO, clamping one side WILL create eventual failure on the other side.

Don't think you'll go wrong either way, it's not a complex piece... it just needs to ACTUALLY clamp the rack on the pass side, and once the force is stopped from going that way, you need to keep it from being able to spread the other way.

Not sure what the mayhem guys used for the bushings, but my fab guy who makes bushings for high pressure, high impact situations made me some from ABS and they degraded very quickly. I feel delrin would be a good material to use, but we discussed that in the obnoxiously long thread at one point & I can't remember what the greater minds than myself said about it's fitness for this situation.

 

[am4x4]

Not sure what the mayhem guys used for the bushings, but my fab guy who makes bushings for high pressure, high impact situations made me some from ABS and they degraded very quickly. I feel delrin would be a good material to use, but we discussed that in the obnoxiously long thread at one point & I can't remember what the greater minds than myself said about it's fitness for this situation.

The answer to that question is UHMW (ultra high molecular weight polyethylene). It was chosen for it's balance between stiffness and resilience to permanent deformation when exposed to impact. When I talked to your bushing guy way back when, I had serious doubts that ABS was the right choice for the application. Some of your issues might have also stemmed from the bushing design, IIRC he used a one piece bushing with no flanges. In my opinion these need the flanges to properly lock the rack down and prevent small movements that would lead to premature bushing wear.

 

[alrock]

I think it could be premature to compare released and unreleased products. It would be like comparing the capabilities of the H3 to the H4.

This may end up being a valuable conversation but until the specs and design are disclosed the comparisons will be based on conjecture.

 

[backcountryislife]

Any idea on an available date from PCF?



Am4x4, how does UHMW compare to delrin? He has a ton of delrin, so I was pretty confused when he made them from ABS. I'll also agree about the bushings being a bit less than ideal... It was getting into turbo install season & being that he does my work for free or next to nothing, he probably just wanted to get me out the door asap.

 

[am4x4]

Am4x4, how does UHMW compare to delrin? He has a ton of delrin, so I was pretty confused when he made them from ABS. I'll also agree about the bushings being a bit less than ideal... It was getting into turbo install season & being that he does my work for free or next to nothing, he probably just wanted to get me out the door asap.

They share many of the properties that are desirable in this application. They are both very hard plastics, delrin is a little bit harder but UHMW is a little more resilient to deformation. They both have good chemical resistance but UHMW is better than delrin. They both have good abrasion resistance, and are stable to a similar temp range. In reality they are probably both appropriate for the application, but I felt that UHMW was a better choice.

Here is a simple chart that shows some basic specs. Delrin does have a higher tensile strength but that does not matter in this application. Tensile strength becomes important in a an application that requires resistance to being pulled apart, an example would be if we were making plastic bolts delrin would be the clear winner.

Click on the "about plastics" button in the search results box
http://www.mcmaster.com/#about-plastics/=mngox1

 

[digglesworth]

I think the big question, and possibly a deciding factor for some folks, is how much longer do we have to wait on the PCF..... I'm a nooB here and don't quite know everyone's back stories. I know there's been a lot of work that's gone into the PCF with testing and such... My decision would be based off of availability and qualty of the product. Both look very similar... I, personally, will have to wait for more feedback on both before I can pony up for one. Just my .02

 

[freeze]

The Outfitter Design kit uses Delrin Bushings to hold the rack just as firmly on the driver side as the aluminum clamp holds it on the passenger side. It also comes with new stainless steel sleeves for the bushings so there is a more precise press fit into the steering rack.

 

[am4x4]

The Outfitter Design kit uses Delrin Bushings to hold the rack just as firmly on the driver side as the aluminum clamp holds it on the passenger side. It also comes with new stainless steel sleeves for the bushings so there is a more precise press fit into the steering rack.

Just to prevent any confusion, my kit reuses the steel sleeve out of the stock bushing and is also a press fit both on the sleeve and into the rack. I didn't want anyone to assume that it was designed to just have the bolt going through the bushings as that would be a VERY bad idea.

 

[silvrzuki77]

Thee mayhem metalworks kit use 4 bolt mounting versus everyone else's 2 bolt. PCF hasnt addressed the driver side at all yet?

 

[freeze]

I forgot to add, the Delrin bushings were also chosen for their UV resistance.

 

[silvrzuki77]

Freeze i dont plan on rolling my truck over with out the skid plate for long periods of time that the UV properties would be a problem. Just sayin

 

[freeze]

Freeze i dont plan on rolling my truck over with out the skid plate for long periods of time that the UV properties would be a problem. Just sayin

Haha I certainly don't either, and because the bushings aren't in direct sunlight, they will last longer than if they were. However, UV radiation acts just like light in the visible spectrum and can reflect off objects. Therefore, some amount of radiation will reach the bushings.

 

[silvrzuki77]

Pretty sure the rest of the truck will fall apart before than... It is a chevy product

 

[freeze]

Pretty sure the rest of the truck will fall apart before than... It is a chevy product

That may or may not be the case. Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to make any assumptions about any other kits, or discredit anyone else's design. I merely want to show what you are buying when you get the OD kit. I obviously have my own opinions, but the ultimate choice is with the consumer. My goal on this forum is to make the choice an informed one.

 

[alrock]

I think the big question, and possibly a deciding factor for some folks, is how much longer do we have to wait on the PCF

Availability is of course a reasonable factor in making your decision on any product

That may or may not be the case. Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to make any assumptions about any other kits, or discredit anyone else's design. I merely want to show what you are buying when you get the OD kit. I obviously have my own opinions, but the ultimate choice is with the consumer. My goal on this forum is to make the choice an informed one.

Freeze, it would make sense for you to offer full disclosure that you are the manufacturer, or associated with OD, so that people understand your opinion, just as am4x4 has done.

 

[silvrzuki77]

Aaah

 

[Zach]

Good call Alex, I was wondering about that.

 

[alrock]

Silverzuki, the PCF design follows a different design philosophy than the other designs out there and, per the manufacturer, it does not require the replacement of the driver's side bushings. Essentially, the design "addresses" the driver's side through the control of the passenger side and its integration with the OEM parts. It's of course up to the consumer to make his/her own choices as to where they want to spend their money, no less than choosing brand A tire over brand B.

 

[silvrzuki77]

Sounds good! Looking forward to install of it! I know backcountrylife kept blowing his rack probally more than anyone else and he contributed it also to driverside movement. I have a video of my other h3 when i did the hunner install and the driver side allowed a ton of movement. Obvious with any mods time will tell and its awesome we have people starting to take intrest in products. Now only if 4speedfunk will do a SAS kit.

 

[3Hummers]

That would be an important disclosure.

 

[08H3]

I think the big question, and possibly a deciding factor for some folks, is how much longer do we have to wait on the PCF..... I'm a nooB here and don't quite know everyone's back stories. I know there's been a lot of work that's gone into the PCF with testing and such... My decision would be based off of availability and qualty of the product. Both look very similar... I, personally, will have to wait for more feedback on both before I can pony up for one. Just my .02

That is my situation and why I asked the question. My shadetree mechanic fix is honestly serving me pretty well at 25,000 miles, but I've ended up with less than a1/64" of an inch of play that is really pretty inconsequential other than it makes a terrible racket when it's two pieces of metal banging into one another. I really need to get something a little more well designed in there and hadn't really seen another option besides the PCF that actually clamps the rack 360 degrees. I can totally respect that PCF may not have FINAL production dates or prices, but if there were at least some ballpark estimates out there I might be persuaded to wait. My fear is that I might end up waiting months for a piece that cost twice as much with no real benefits. I'm completely neutral here and not taking sides. Just looking for some answers without the bs of the other threads.

 

[freeze]

Alrock,
Yes I am part of Outfitter Design. Sorry I forgot to mention it.

 

[4speedfunk]

Now only if 4speedfunk will do a SAS kit.

I can put you one together anytime you're ready. Show me the money.

 

[backcountryislife]

Silverzuki, the PCF design follows a different design philosophy than the other designs out there and, per the manufacturer, it does not require the replacement of the driver's side bushings. Essentially, the design "addresses" the driver's side through the control of the passenger side and its integration with the OEM parts. I

You can't make the driver's side stop moving from the passenger side though... physics is a bit of an issue there. You've got a ram that pushes from one side to the other, given enough resistance or the right impact, it wants to split the housing of the ram. Solidly clamping the pass side of the ram housing will now cause the force to be applied to the other side... no way around it really.


say for example, I've got a ram I'm holding, and it's allowed to expand from me out into the air... no stress will be on me, as it has no resistance. Now take the same ram & put it against a CMU wall (block) and extend the ram... I now get shoved back. This is the effect of what happens when you lock down one side & not the other.