Solid axle conversion build up. Need your help please

[LS12FAST4U]

I've got the okay from the wife to do an SFA conversion so I need help from everyone that has done one already. I found a 4x4 shop locally that does extreme off road vehicles (mostly jeeps) that quoted me 2k for the conversion of the front axle and to do a SOA in the rear. I'm going to supply the parts. I need your help with a parts list of everything I will need for both front and rear conversions.

Here is what I'm wanting:

Lift: Coil springs around 4-6 inches of lift I'm assuming. I'm not going for height I'm going for flex and articulation. I wheel in rocks and desert nothing where I'm doing 30mph. It absolutely has to stay comfortable to drive and it has to remain reliable. Parts need to be easy to get if something breaks.

Drive train: I'm keeping the stock transfer case (4:1) so I have to be able to keep the all wheel drive and have it remain reliable and easy to drive.

This will not be a quick conversion as I am going to buy the parts while saving the 2k for the install. I'm hoping to have it done by late spring early summer.

I'm hoping to keep this thread about the parts that have worked from people that have done it. I don't want it to turn into a this might work or try this it might work thread. The budget is tight so I really need something that has already been done successfully.

Thanks

 

[ReconH3]

Do you have an Alpha or an I5? Do a search for the thread " Squeaky SAS Build". Lots of great info there.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

 

[LS12FAST4U]

I've got the I5. I've looked through his thread but I wanted to start a new one in case there is a better product available now or if him or you would do it differently. Also the thread is so long and makes it a lot harder to find all the parts and brands and things needed.

 

[4speedfunk]

The first thing I can add is: Whoever quoted you $2K is either crazy or a total hack. Make sure you get that in writing because, that guy will be on the Haitian pay scale by the time he's done with it.

I have all the info you need, including the parts and labor required...listed in PDF form. I can put together a complete kit for you...or just partial stuff, if you want to track down the pieces yourself. All of my parts are based on the GM Dana 44 (or corp GM 10-bolt), and a 3-link with coil springs. Prices can be all over the place depending on how fancy you get. It is proven system and it works very well both on and off road...handles, brakes, and rides very nice. Stock Hummer brakes are adapted to the solid axle so ABS, TCS and Stabilitrac are all fully functioning. Many people assume a solid axle automatically means "Jeep" ride quality but, I can attest...it ain't so. It is reliable, rugged, and there are no custom internal parts. You can walk into any NAPA or AutoZone and get whatever you need to fix any part of the axle.

Stock t-case...fine. SOA in the rear is required to match the front lift (approx. 5"-6").

Here' a real good look at my rig. I have developed my own bracketry since this was shot but, it gives you the basic run-down of what it looks like (3-parts to this vid)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1PHxm-a3FE


Edit: Also you can see still pics of the "kit" on the THORparts sponsor page here:
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?8704-SAS-Spy-Photos

 

[LS12FAST4U]

The first thing I can add is: Whoever quoted you $2K is either crazy or a total hack. Make sure you get that in writing because, that guy will be on the Haitian pay scale by the time he's done with it.

I have all the info you need, including the parts and labor required...listed in PDF form. I can put together a complete kit for you...or just partial stuff, if you want to track down the pieces yourself. All of my parts are based on the GM Dana 44 (or corp GM 10-bolt), and a 3-link with coil springs. Prices can be all over the place depending on how fancy you get. It is proven system and it works very well both on and off road...handles, brakes, and rides very nice. Stock Hummer brakes are adapted to the solid axle so ABS, TCS and Stabilitrac are all fully functioning. Many people assume a solid axle automatically means "Jeep" ride quality but, I can attest...it ain't so. It is reliable, rugged, and there are no custom internal parts. You can walk into any NAPA or AutoZone and get whatever you need to fix any part of the axle.

Stock t-case...fine. SOA in the rear is required to match the front lift (approx. 5"-6").

Here' a real good look at my rig. I have developed my own bracketry since this was shot but, it gives you the basic run-down of what it looks like (3-parts to this vid)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1PHxm-a3FE


Edit: Also you can see still pics of the "kit" on the THORparts sponsor page here:
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?8704-SAS-Spy-Photos

For your kit will It have everything required for a complete swap including the axle?

 

[LS12FAST4U]

I will probably try to find a high pinion axle locally along with any other parts that could easily be found in a wrecking yard or parts store. The brackets and things like that I would definitely buy from you though. It would make it a lot easier considering you already have a tried and true system. I wish you were closer haha I would try and recruit your help. As for the axle I would be okay with a very basic axle to begin with. I don't need a locker to start but depending on what gears the axle has in it I may swap to 5.13's. Feel free to PM 4Speed as im definitely interested and I would like to have your PDF of the parts list.

 

[06 H3]

I can attest to ride quality. Personally, I thought he lying when CJ (4speedfunk) said it rides as nice as stock. Honestly I think its smoother. Ive got a JK sitting right next to squeaky, its my brothers. I drove it the other day. The H3 rides nicer, steers better, tracks down the road better and I can still talk on the cell phone and hear the person while driving.

My mom drove in the hummer about a month ago and said wow, this thing rides smoother. For her to notice it must be drastic because she is not one to notice that.

I would say in terms of ride quality worst to best it goes t bar crank, stock, rancho lift and SAS are similar but the SAS might have the edge especially on rougher roads.

Best of all if you think the ride quality sucks, its EASILY adjustable. The options are endless, if you want the stiffest ride in the world get F250 springs if you want the softest ride in between go with TJ springs. Both CJ and I are in the happy medium area, hes got bronco springs, I have jeep grand cherokee springs. My buddy had an old set, hes got a V8, they work out well.

Anyways, If you find the deals you can do it cheaper then some. Find a dana 44 thats already built. The guy who sold me my axle had 2k into it. I bought it for 1k. You can save money in the long run doing that but if you wanna do it cheap buy a junkyard 44 put in gears and be done. Mine had a locker, chromoly axle shafts, new ball joints, etc.

I remember you complaining you didnt like its hillclimbing abilities. This thing is a billygoat. There is a hill on an offshoot trail by my house. My buddy has NEVER seen a 4x4 make it up this hill. Loose silt, loose rock super steep a couple hundred yards long so a running start can only do so much but I made it. He was going nuts. I have seen many many people fail at that hill.

Flex, it droops to hell and back.

Lastly, the SAS makes it perform how it should. I was a HORRIBLE driver when I started wheeling ask Zach. I didnt have the money or desire to do the SAS back in the day and I learned how to drive the H3 and I could make it work in MANY places people thought it should not be especially with ****ty tires. I learned how the H3 reacts and I made it work on hill climbs, and made it work in the rocks. It can be done with the stockish setup but when I started wheeling trails that every guy I am with has done axle swaps, grinding, cutting and welding is a part of lifting and putting on suspension kits or building their own suspension I realized I was at a huge disadvantage. I still followed them for the most part. Thats how good the H3 rancho lift and spring over is. I could follow people 99% of the time and they had way more done to their rig but when I started blowing diffs I did the SAS. Now its done I wont look back but I still will always respect a stockish H3. They kick ass when you fully understand how to drive them.

 

[4speedfunk]

LS1...You won't find a high pinion with a passenger-drop unless you make one. The process is a total beyotch but, it can be done. I currently have two HP D44 pass-drop housings in stock and they are both full-size GM width, perfect for the H3.

I also have (4) stock low-pinion GM housings, and (1) Corp 10-bolt. The 10-bolt is not something I normally mess with but, this one just happened to already have an Eaton E-locker, chro-mo shafts, and Yukon 4.56s in it. In essence...its exactly how I would built it for an H3. I acquired it with 8-lug hubs, and I'm currently re-fitting it with THORparts 6-lug ABS hubs. It has less than 3K miles on it, and the matching gears are perfect for a low-budget SASH3 where you don't want the extra expense of re-gearing the rear axle. When I get it done...I'll send you some pics.

 

[ReconH3]

I strongly suggest ram assist steering. I have an Alpha and weight was too much for just a steering box. The I5 may be lighter but in the end the ram assist helps a lot with keeping steering stable when driving in road. Just a suggestion.

 

[LS12FAST4U]

I definitely want the steering to be easy as my wife drives it occasionally. Also when it comes to the axle I'm really pretty open. I can put a locker in it down the road as I already have a rear locker. I would rather get the swap done on a budget and then add stronger axles and such down the road.

 

[LS12FAST4U]

4 speed I'm fine with a low pinion axle. Obviously if I found something for a steal I would do it but it's definitely not necessary.

 

[4speedfunk]

I would rather get the swap done on a budget and then add stronger axles and such down the road.

Yup. Same with the ram. You can get your steering box ported ahead of time, and leave the ports capped. That way when funds become available...you can add the ram and hydraulic hoses to run it without tearing things completely apart. I actually prefer the steering without the ram. The Nissan box has no issues turning but, the big tires do put a huge strain on the box and the frame. The ram eases this strain and its my hope that the ram will make the box last indefinitely. That's why I run a ram. Its not because I can't turn the wheels...its because I only get 6-months out of a Nissan box before it starts leaking!

It has taken a year of tweaking to get my truck lined-out. I had several issues causing "wandering and darting" and I tracked all of them down to a smoked transfer case, loose hubs, and a loose track bar. Once those got items fixed...I am finally comfortable letting my wife drive it now. No shimmies. No darting. Panic breaking is straight and predictable. She is still very intimidated by it...it sits so high, and its quite an experience to tool around in traffic...even more exciting to wheel it. It will seriously go anywhere you care to point it.

 

[derian06]

2g in labor? Thats crazy cheap. I would have saved up and done that instead of the rancho in a heart beat. Good luck with the build man, sounds like it will work out really well,

 

[06 H3]

I agree on ram assist.

My steering feels nice (it doesnt have the flightly feeling my brother's has) but it is currently has a loose/extra play feeling. Which I expected, I bought the steering box off of ebay with over 140k miles on it off of a totalled xterra. the box is worn out its definitely had better days. I did it to save money. Now that I have recouped some I plan to buy another junk box send it to redneck ram have them rebuild it tap it and then get a ram and do ram assist. Then take the box I have now rebuilt that and get it tapped for a spare.

 

[LS12FAST4U]

Good to hear about the ram assist. I will probably go that way then. The shop said if I supply all the parts needed and they don't have to custom make brackets or brake lines etc then they could get it done in around 20 hours worth of labor (1600) and the rear soa would be between 4-500 so right around 2-2100 dollars.

 

[LS12FAST4U]

How's this look? http://boise.craigslist.org/pts/4689376944.html

 

[06 H3]

the only custom bracktery you gotta make is frame plates and the track bar mount, So far 4speedfunk and I are the only 2 in DIY SAS land that run a track bar (07custom is running leafs) and both of us used different track bar brackets but both of us had to chop em up, modify and make make our own final track bar bracket.

Maybe ORE used a JK track bar bracket on recon can that be used but hes running a dana 60 so either way the track bar bracket is probably a DIY deal.

 

[LS12FAST4U]

Okay good to know. I'm assuming it will be easier and more cost effective to use coil springs and a 3 link. I don't think there is much room for a 4 link.

 

[06 H3]

4 link requires cutting the exhaust off after the headers and redesigning it

 

[LS12FAST4U]

That's why I am not doing a 4 link.

 

[MaxPF]

The first thing I can add is: Whoever quoted you $2K is either crazy or a total hack. Make sure you get that in writing because, that guy will be on the Haitian pay scale by the time he's done with it.

I thought the same thing. That is way too cheap to not be a hack job...

 

[LS12FAST4U]

Can someone check out that link I posted for Craigslist and let me know if that is the correct axle?

 

[4speedfunk]

That will work. Don't pay more than $100.

 

[MaxPF]

Can someone check out that link I posted for Craigslist and let me know if that is the correct axle?

Except for the fact that there is no such thing as a "mid 70's" 10b axle. 10b fronts weren't used until 1980, when they replaced the D44 front axle.

The 10b is a good axle (they actually have a much stronger inner pinion bearing vs the D44) but the 80-88 units have 28 spline shafts. D44s have 30 spline shafts, as do 89-up 10b axles. If you buy this axle, find out it is a 28 spline unit, and want to upgrade to 30 spline axles I have a couple sets of complete shafts as well as a complete 30 spline carrier (the carrier came out of Alrock's H3 rear end when I replaced it with an E-Locker). Even if you keep the 28 spline parts, if you plan on installing an E-Locker, you will have to get 30 spline shafts.

Also, ALL 77-up front axles, whether D44 or 10b, do NOT have flat top knuckles on the passenger side. In order to do this swap you will need a flat top knuckle on the passenger side to mount the steering arm. The problem is that the flat top knuckles off of the 76-earlier D44s have their tie rod arms tapered from the top, whereas the 10b axles have them tapered from the bottom. In other words, with the older flat top knuckles the tie rod end installs from the top and the nut tightens on the bottom, while the 10b axles install from the bottom and the nut tightens on the top. This means that you will have to replace the knuckles as a set, UNLESS YOU RUN HIGH STEER. High steer mounts the tie rod on the bolt-on arms, so the knuckle arms aren't used.

I'm not sure how easy 76-earlier D44 knuckles are to find these days. Probably about as easy as finding a complete 76-earlier complete D44 axle. Fortunately, Reid Racing sells extra beefy aftermarket knuckles. Unfortunately, they ain't cheap. They ARE worth the money, though.

Oh and I concur with 4speed - $100 is OK as long as 3.73s are the gears you need. If you have to re-gear I would beat him down on price a bit.

 

[4speedfunk]

All great info MaxPF. I actually got a line on a 10-bolt and I'm going to look at it Monday. Its got an Eaton E-locker, 4.56s, chro-mo shafts, and Warn lockouts....allegedly on a fresh rebuild. I assume its a 30-spline version but, I'll know once I take a closer look. It's a 3/4-ton, 8-lug version. Normally I don't mess with 10-bolts but, this one is already loaded with great parts and its basically a slam-dunk for a H3 swap...simply needs some ABS hubs and 3-link bracketry. Dimensionally...the corp-10 and Dana 44 are identical, and they share the same parts out at the knuckles. But, I prefer the Dana 44 simply because their are so many goodies out there for them. Danas came in GM, Ford, Dodge, Jeep, International, blah blah...so there are many more sources to get parts from (especially used parts). Corp 10's only came in GM trucks, and you rarely find used off-road parts so you are more likely to be forced to buy all new stuff which gets expensive.

I run the early Dana knuckles exclusively...casting numbers C36519 & C36520. These are the flat-tops with the top-down taper that you speak of. I've tried a couple different times, and I cannot get high-steer to fit on an H3 with the box I run, so I just use low steer with a cross-over drag-link. The top-down tapered knuckles place the tie rod up high enough, that I don't see the need for a true high-steer.

Around here, Corp 10s and Dana 44s (GM & otherwise), are like dandelions. If possible try to find one with some goodies in it...it will be much cheaper in the long run. If you start with a bone stock axle, you'll end up with $3000 by the time you're done pimpin it out. Locker, chro-mo shafts, gears, bearings, cover, knuckles, lock-outs, etc....add up quickly. You don't necessarily need all the goodies but if you plan to wheel with 35" or 37"...the shafts in particular, is money well spent.