Has this been done before????

[ABNTROOP]

Ty for the info:thumbs:

 

[chad]

Man those are pretty cool. I've been trying to decide where to put them but the spare tire holder may be the best place. Thanks. Post me a pic when you mount them.

 

[alrock]

Chad - front locker can be had but the best way to do may be to buy a whole cast iron front diff with the locker. The aluminum one won't withstand the abuse from the locker.

Or you can buy the cast iron carrier and the locker and assemble it all, but the first option might actually be less expensive.

 

[chad]

Thanks. Wish I could have just gotten an adventure model guess getting lockers will be put on the back burners for now. Gonna be a timely and costly job.

 

[Expendable]

instead of dropping an H3 on a 2500 HD 4x4 chassis I would take an H3 body and put it on a Humvee/H1 Chassis. haha. Just widen the body . . . lol.
would sure look interesting.

 

[MaxPF]

The Duramax is just not a good fit for the H3 chassis. A 4BT, ISB3.9, or ISB4.5 Cummins would fit nicely in the space of the I5. A 4L80 would be needed instead of the 4L60, but you could keep the rest of the powertrain... for a while, anyways

Edit: Here's the I5:

Here's an ISB (actually QSB - same difference) 4.5 in a Jeep:

The 3.9 is more common and looks the same. These will EASILY fit in an H3.

 

[chad]

That's true. I didn't even think about using a smalle diesel. When my engine completely dies I just might make it a diesel. Make my own biodiesel and then I can wheel for practically nothing.

 

[chad]

I really like that Jerry can mount but a friend of mine just pointed out a mount. It's on the warthog from halo 4. I don't really play games but if you google it some pics come up of it and its a 3 can holder which is exactly what I want. I plan on carrying two gas and one water can. This one looks a little easier to make as well. Goes in the same place. Then I'll put the spare tire on top. Unless I can get those sweet new tires that don't use air. The ones that have that honeycomb look. Get those then don't need a spare at all

 

[SolidusJ]

Here's an 4BT with an 4L60, this is where the project money is going when I pay off my T next year.

 

[ABNTROOP]

Looks like the real life Weta built Warthog never had the fuel can rack incorporated. Shame.

 

[ReconH3]

I really like that Jerry can mount but a friend of mine just pointed out a mount. It's on the warthog from halo 4. I don't really play games but if you google it some pics come up of it and its a 3 can holder which is exactly what I want. I plan on carrying two gas and one water can. This one looks a little easier to make as well. Goes in the same place. Then I'll put the spare tire on top. Unless I can get those sweet new tires that don't use air. The ones that have that honeycomb look. Get those then don't need a spare at all

That's a good idea. I talked to Andy and he said yes. I'll start a new topic so we can stay on topic here. He can do any configuration you want. I have two water can holders inside the truck.

Ex Umbris Venimus

 

[LagunaH1]

You what to rear ends only???????

Ask his poor defenseless grease gun

 

[MaxPF]

Here's an 4BT with an 4L60, this is where the project money is going when I pay off my T next year.
View attachment 9302

Yes, you can physically bolt a 4L60E to a Cummins with the proper adapter, but it won't live. 4L60's are not robust transmissions, and the low RPM torque peak of the diesel is not kind to them. Which is why I said it needs to be replaced with a 4L80. You can try the 60, but you will be replacing it sooner rather than later. Best off just to do it right from the get-go

You will also find that the newer electronic engines are quieter and have less vibration. 4BT's are excellent engines, but they are noisy little shakers. Fluid filled mounts take care of the vibes, and sound deadening helps with the noise, but you will still hear it in the cabin. The electronic engines (ISB/QSB) can run pilot injection, which makes them nearly as quiet as a gas engine. It smooths out the firing pulses as well, which means less vibration.

 

[SolidusJ]

Yes, you can physically bolt a 4L60E to a Cummins with the proper adapter, but it won't live. 4L60's are not robust transmissions, and the low RPM torque peak of the diesel is not kind to them. Which is why I said it needs to be replaced with a 4L80. You can try the 60, but you will be replacing it sooner rather than later. Best off just to do it right from the get-go

You will also find that the newer electronic engines are quieter and have less vibration. 4BT's are excellent engines, but they are noisy little shakers. Fluid filled mounts take care of the vibes, and sound deadening helps with the noise, but you will still hear it in the cabin. The electronic engines (ISB/QSB) can run pilot injection, which makes them nearly as quiet as a gas engine. It smooths out the firing pulses as well, which means less vibration.

I've asked this a 1001 and one times already and no one has giving me a yes or no. If I run the the 4BT or the ISB with an 4L80 would my transfer case, axles and hub be able to stay on or will they have to be upgrade due to the torque? I'm not going to make monster HP or torque with it, I just want a little diesel to get me 20 MPG on the street and maybe 200 HP to all four wheels and can't forget the great sound of a diesel engine also.

 

[MaxPF]

I've asked this a 1001 and one times already and no one has giving me a yes or no. If I run the the 4BT or the ISB with an 4L80 would my transfer case, axles and hub be able to stay on or will they have to be upgrade due to the torque? I'm not going to make monster HP or torque with it, I just want a little diesel to get me 20 MPG on the street and maybe 200 HP to all four wheels and can't forget the great sound of a diesel engine also.

The problem is that "monster torque" is a given with a diesel. The 3.9 and 4.5 are both available in 170HP versions, and make 420lb-ft and 460lb-ft respectively. When you consider that the 5.3L V-8 in the Alpha only makes 320lb-ft, and even the big 8.1L big block makes 455lb-ft, you begin to see why drivetrain upgrades are pretty much a given with a diesel swap. Furthermore, the 5.3 makes its peak torque at 4600RPM, and the big block peaks at 3200RPM, while the Cummisn peaks way down at around 1600RPM. This is great for power delivery, but even harder on parts. Now, bump the diesel up to 200HP, and you are making 500-550lb-ft of torque. Bump it to 250 (which is probably the max for the stock turbo and injectors) and you are in the 600-675lb-ft realm. The massive torque does render a 4:1 transfer case unnecessary though

Finally, you need to realize that the "little" 4 cylinder Cummins weighs as much as an all-iron big block, so suspension upgrades will probably be needed. Quite honestly, unless you are willing to do a SAS and rear axle upgrade, you should probably not do a Cummins swap. A light duty diesel like the VM Motori 2.8L CRD would be a better fit weight-and-torque wise with the stock axles and trans, but they aren't exactly readily available, and I have no idea how "swappable" they are or whether a GM trans can even be adapted to it. They are also definitely not as reliable as a true HD diesel like the Cummins or DMax. They are more of a passenger car diesel.

I have said this before, but it bears repeating: a diesel swap is inevitably a complete drivetrain swap. It may not start out that way, but you end up there. You can run the stock axles and t-case for a while, but you will inevitably be upgrading. Ask me how I know :giggle:

 

[SolidusJ]

The problem is that "monster torque" is a given with a diesel. The 3.9 and 4.5 are both available in 170HP versions, and make 420lb-ft and 460lb-ft respectively. When you consider that the 5.3L V-8 in the Alpha only makes 320lb-ft, and even the big 8.1L big block makes 455lb-ft, you begin to see why drivetrain upgrades are pretty much a given with a diesel swap. Furthermore, the 5.3 makes its peak torque at 4600RPM, and the big block peaks at 3200RPM, while the Cummisn peaks way down at around 1600RPM. This is great for power delivery, but even harder on parts. Now, bump the diesel up to 200HP, and you are making 500-550lb-ft of torque. Bump it to 250 (which is probably the max for the stock turbo and injectors) and you are in the 600-675lb-ft realm. The massive torque does render a 4:1 transfer case unnecessary though

Finally, you need to realize that the "little" 4 cylinder Cummins weighs as much as an all-iron big block, so suspension upgrades will probably be needed. Quite honestly, unless you are willing to do a SAS and rear axle upgrade, you should probably not do a Cummins swap. A light duty diesel like the VM Motori 2.8L CRD would be a better fit weight-and-torque wise with the stock axles and trans, but they aren't exactly readily available, and I have no idea how "swappable" they are or whether a GM trans can even be adapted to it. They are also definitely not as reliable as a true HD diesel like the Cummins or DMax. They are more of a passenger car diesel.

I have said this before, but it bears repeating: a diesel swap is inevitably a complete drivetrain swap. It may not start out that way, but you end up there. You can run the stock axles and t-case for a while, but you will inevitably be upgrading. Ask me how I know :giggle:

Your crushing my hopes MaxPF :cheers:, IF I was to go ahead with my plans what would you recommend as fair for the rear axle and the front IFS? Let's just say I was able to get an rear axle form an D-max and their front IFS would this be too much work to make all this work on an H3T? Like I said next year is when I start buying parts and maybe a year or 2 letter is when that hacking and chopping begins, will it be to much work for one man?

 

[Chook]

.................A light duty diesel like the VM Motori 2.8L CRD would be a better fit weight-and-torque wise with the stock axles and trans, but they aren't exactly readily available, and I have no idea how "swappable" they are or whether a GM trans can even be adapted to it. They are also definitely not as reliable as a true HD diesel like the Cummins or DMax. They are more of a passenger car diesel.

X2............ VM Motori is the way GM is going with their Diesels.......... If you just want the fuel economy/range benefits without all the other transmission changes then look at the new GM models coming out with Diesel powerplants (Caddillac etc.) & pick up one of them that way they connect to the GM Gearbox, the ECU & wiring will be easier, parts, service, etc.

 

[MaxPF]

Your crushing my hopes MaxPF :cheers:, IF I was to go ahead with my plans what would you recommend as fair for the rear axle and the front IFS? Let's just say I was able to get an rear axle form an D-max and their front IFS would this be too much work to make all this work on an H3T? Like I said next year is when I start buying parts and maybe a year or 2 letter is when that hacking and chopping begins, will it be to much work for one man?

Well, Bebe just bought my 6-lug semi-floating 14 bolt. When she swaps it into the Bebemonster, she will have axles capable of handling a Cummins 4 cylinder. I would think along those lines. The 9.25" AAM IFS front and either a semi-floating 9.5" 14 bolt or a full-floating 10.5" 14 bolt rear is a good choice. The DMax uses an 11.5" full-floating axle which is only really needed for the high GCW rating of the DMax trucks. If a SAS doesn't offend you, then a 10b or D44 front would be adequate, although a D60 would be better, especially of you plan to run big tires. My rule of thumb is to always run a size bigger on the rear axle vs the front. So, if you run a 10b or D44 front, then either a 9.5" or 10.5" 14b rear is fine. If you run a D60 front then definitely run a 10.5" rear. A D60 front AND rear would be fine as well, which is the setup Recon runs on his H3.

X2............ VM Motori is the way GM is going with their Diesels.......... If you just want the fuel economy/range benefits without all the other transmission changes then look at the new GM models coming out with Diesel powerplants (Caddillac etc.) & pick up one of them that way they connect to the GM Gearbox, the ECU & wiring will be easier, parts, service, etc.

None of these engines, other than the 2.8CRD used in the Liberty before 2007, are available in the US, AFAIK. These engines also don't have the durability, reliability, and LONGEVITY of their HD counterparts. OTOH, if you can get one they will be more compatible with the stock powertrain due to their lower weight and torque.

 

[alrock]

For my eventual powertrain upgrade I'm much more likely to go 6.0 or 6.2 gas vs any diesel due to the suspension and drivetrain requirements. Unless I have a lot of money sitting around and then diesel is back on the table

 

[ReconH3]

Those VM engines are so unreliable it's just not worth the cost and the hassle.



Ex Umbris Venimus

 

[4speedfunk]

For my eventual powertrain upgrade I'm much more likely to go 6.0 or 6.2 gas vs any diesel due to the suspension and drivetrain requirements. Unless I have a lot of money sitting around and then diesel is back on the table

If anything...I would upgrade the drivetrain long before I would mess with a motor swap. However, if you do upgrade to a real motor...a drivetrain upgrade is almost mandatory IMO. True a larger V8 will bolt-up but, both axles and probably the t-case are not as stout as they should be. Its sort of "all or nuthin" when it comes to messing with an H3.

I feel I've done about all I can do to mine, while still keeping the fabrication "reasonable" and retaining three-fourths of the stock drivetrain. But when you start talking things like "diesel swap"...and that requires a "tranny swap"...and that in turn requires a "t-case swap"...and that in turn requires both "axles swapped"...and that requires new 8-lug wheels...blah blah blah. Not to mention the electronic nightmare! Well, you see where all this is going.

Thats why I vote for a 2500HD body swap...rather than a true H3 build. It just seems to make more sense. Far easier to weld some body perches to a frame, and hook up the steering shaft...than it is to convert the fuel type, and swap-out the entire drivetrain. Even if you had to do a solid front axle swap on the 2500 chassis, it would still be easier than cramming all the individual components into an H3. I also think it would be more servicable over the long term since you would essentially be rolling on stock parts rather than a bunch of custom-made stuff.

Actually. Now that I think about it...I would probably start with an older 2500 Dodge chassis. Its already got the solid front axle, and the better (less electronified) Cummins 12v. You could gut all the computer crap, rather than trying to swap-in the DuraMax brainbox. Just chop the frame to match the H3 wheelbase...bolt the H3 body to it...red positive...black ground...ignition. Rattle rattle rattle...

 

[alrock]

Not too worried about all of the build problems. That's MaxPF's responsibility

 

[SolidusJ]

If anything...I would upgrade the drivetrain long before I would mess with a motor swap. However, if you do upgrade to a real motor...a drivetrain upgrade is almost mandatory IMO. True a larger V8 will bolt-up but, both axles and probably the t-case are not as stout as they should be. Its sort of "all or nuthin" when it comes to messing with an H3.

I feel I've done about all I can do to mine, while still keeping the fabrication "reasonable" and retaining three-fourths of the stock drivetrain. But when you start talking things like "diesel swap"...and that requires a "tranny swap"...and that in turn requires a "t-case swap"...and that in turn requires both "axles swapped"...and that requires new 8-lug wheels...blah blah blah. Not to mention the electronic nightmare! Well, you see where all this is going.

Thats why I vote for a 2500HD body swap...rather than a true H3 build. It just seems to make more sense. Far easier to weld some body perches to a frame, and hook up the steering shaft...than it is to convert the fuel type, and swap-out the entire drivetrain. Even if you had to do a solid front axle swap on the 2500 chassis, it would still be easier than cramming all the individual components into an H3. I also think it would be more servicable over the long term since you would essentially be rolling on stock parts rather than a bunch of custom-made stuff.

Actually. Now that I think about it...I would probably start with an older 2500 Dodge chassis. Its already got the solid front axle, and the better (less electronified) Cummins 12v. You could gut all the computer crap, rather than trying to swap-in the DuraMax brainbox. Just chop the frame to match the H3 wheelbase...bolt the H3 body to it...red positive...black ground...ignition. Rattle rattle rattle...

That is what I have been thinking about for a year now and an 2005 LBZ EXD cab wheel base is 136" and the T is at 133". If I was to do this MPG would be one of the top keys.

 

[MaxPF]

For my eventual powertrain upgrade I'm much more likely to go 6.0 or 6.2 gas vs any diesel due to the suspension and drivetrain requirements. Unless I have a lot of money sitting around and then diesel is back on the table

You think your gas mileage is bad now? Wait till you have a V-8 under the hood :giggle:

Those VM engines are so unreliable it's just not worth the cost and the hassle.

Yeah, they have issues. The Isuzu 4JJ1 is in the same class as the 2.8CRD, but I don't know what it's reliability is like.

One thing to keep in mind with these light "car" diesels is that they are simply not built as rugged and heavy as a HD diesel like a Cummins. They are made to be light weight, and as a result they are close to their mechanical limits at their stock power ratings, so "hopping them up" is not advised. A 4BT is literally just a 6BT (i.e a 12V 5.9L like Dodge used from 1989-1998) with 2 less cylinders. It is just as beefy. Likewise, the ISB3.9 is a 4 cylinder version of the ISB5.9 (common rail 24 valve engine), and the ISB4.5 is a 4 cylinder version of the ISB6.7 (like the 6.7 used in current Dodges). They use the same pistons, rods, valves, etc. as their 6 cylinder brothers - they just have 2 less. This means they are equally as rugged and reliable as their 6-cylinder big brothers, which is what makes them so desirable IMO. If you're going to all the trouble of swapping a diesel, do you want some wimpy thing made for a car? i wouldn't.

If anything...I would upgrade the drivetrain long before I would mess with a motor swap. However, if you do upgrade to a real motor...a drivetrain upgrade is almost mandatory IMO. True a larger V8 will bolt-up but, both axles and probably the t-case are not as stout as they should be. Its sort of "all or nuthin" when it comes to messing with an H3.

I feel I've done about all I can do to mine, while still keeping the fabrication "reasonable" and retaining three-fourths of the stock drivetrain. But when you start talking things like "diesel swap"...and that requires a "tranny swap"...and that in turn requires a "t-case swap"...and that in turn requires both "axles swapped"...and that requires new 8-lug wheels...blah blah blah. Not to mention the electronic nightmare! Well, you see where all this is going.

Thats why I vote for a 2500HD body swap...rather than a true H3 build. It just seems to make more sense. Far easier to weld some body perches to a frame, and hook up the steering shaft...than it is to convert the fuel type, and swap-out the entire drivetrain. Even if you had to do a solid front axle swap on the 2500 chassis, it would still be easier than cramming all the individual components into an H3. I also think it would be more servicable over the long term since you would essentially be rolling on stock parts rather than a bunch of custom-made stuff.

Actually. Now that I think about it...I would probably start with an older 2500 Dodge chassis. Its already got the solid front axle, and the better (less electronified) Cummins 12v. You could gut all the computer crap, rather than trying to swap-in the DuraMax brainbox. Just chop the frame to match the H3 wheelbase...bolt the H3 body to it...red positive...black ground...ignition. Rattle rattle rattle...

Body swaps are far from easy. There is a LOT more to consider than simply wheelbase. Where is the rear of the engine in relation to the firewall? Location and height of the cooling stack? Location and height of the trans and t-case? Fuel tank location and interference? Master cylinder interference with the engine? Steering shaft fitment? ABS/TC compatibility? Airbag sensor location? The list goes on. Having seen it done both ways with various swaps, I will say that swapping a powertrain into an existing frame/body is usually easier. A body swap does have the advantage that it gives you a beefier frame, but I don't see the frame strength as an issue on the H3.

As I mentioned before, you can do a diesel swap incrementally. Swap the engine/trans (and t-case if needed) initially, and do an axle swap later as needed. With a 3, a torsion bar crank would probably compensate for the extra weight. Perhaps a heavier bar from a truck is swappable into the 3? That assumes that the diesel fits with the IFS. I think it probably would, but you never really know until you test fit stuff.

Honestly, I may be overstating the axle swap thing. A lot of that depends on tire size and HOW you drive. When you realize that a 4:1 t-case quadruples the torque, then a standard 2.61 case behind a diesel will probably be no harder on the axles than a 4:1 case behind a 5.3. You can run a 4:1 case with the diesel and stock axles, but don't be stupid with the loud pedal in low range. Of course, there is no multiplication in high range, so the axles are seeing much less torque than when in low range. I wouldn't be afraid to run a stock 10b rear and cast iron front diff with a stock or slightly warmed 4 cylinder Cummins, but I would do the swap with the CLEAR UNDERSTANDING that I may be doing axle upgrades in the future. As always, upgrade the rear axle first - it's easier, cheaper, and takes more of the load anyway.

Not too worried about all of the build problems. That's MaxPF's responsibility

You're gonna crap when you fire up your new swap and it sounds like this:

[video=youtube;M7bJ9LUpCEc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7bJ9LUpCEc[/video]

 

[4speedfunk]

That is so cool. If I put that thing in an H3...I would really have to fight the urge to paint it green and put yellow John Deer stickers on it!

I do quite a bit of sailing these days and all the boats I've been on use 3 and 4 cylinder marine diesels...mostly Yanmar, Universal, and Volvo-Penta. These motors start, run, and sound just like the 4bt. They are so incredibly simple and reliable, and they get amazing fuel economy. Of course on a boat, the rpm is pretty much constant. Most of the time its at idle (anchoring or docking) or if you're in a hurry, bump it up to 2500 (7 knots). You gotta pull the big, red, fuel kill knob just to shut one down! I was never much a diesel fan until I started spending time on boats. I gotta admit...the sensation and bottom-end grunt of a diesel grows on you.

Swaps (any of them) are never as easy as you first think.