H3 Torsion Lift Stock?

[Nevets1119]

I'm thinking of leveling the Hummer before I put a lift in. What are the affects of tightening the "Stock" torsion bolts? is going 21/2" to high. Anyone do this and have some miles on it like this? Any input is great. I read the other threads online and did some research but cant confirm that it does damage or confirm at which height is the max some say they've put it to 3" and had no problem stock others say not to go over 11/2", 2", or 21/2 so real set # or problems so if someone has done it and can tell me the pros and cons that'd be great. Thanks

 

[amrg]

There is a dedicated thread regarding this subject on this forum. Perhaps someone can point you out.
Anyway, in response to ur questions, 21.5 is considered stock here. If ur below it, its fine. The max safe value to reach should be 23.25 (general consensus) Some people say up to 23.75. Ur supposed to measure from hub center to bottom of fender.
Side effects: more wear on ur cvs, ball joints, resulting in less life span. (Bear in mind some ppl have over 100k miles on this truck leveled with no issues)
Other side effects: ur truck will be higher and the tires will look smaller, forcing u to go swap em for 35's

 

[digglesworth]

I can't get into the pros and cons but can tell you lots and lots of people have done this. I'm not sure where you're getting your measurements from but 23.5" from the center of the hub to the bottom of the fender seems to be the magic number. Any higher and you risk excessive wear on the steering rack and damage to the cv shafts... The only negative I guess would be some say the stock shocks aren't long enough to accommodate the extra inches... There's several solutions to this and your best bet would be the search bar and read the countless posts on leveling...

 

[Xlr8n]

I think the OP was referring to the amount of actual lift: 2-1/2", 2", 1-1/2", not the fender to hub measurement.

 

[digglesworth]

Yeah. I read it wrong. I though I saw an 11 in there. I'm looking at a 5" smartphone screen. I think he gets the point... Adding 1.5",2",etc is irrelevant unless your truck is sitting perfectly at the engineered ride height and hasn't sagged at all... You may think you added 2.5" of lift but if your truck has sagged .5", you've really only lifted 2"... Thanks for clearing that up for me though. I feel so much better. :thumbs:

 

[Nevets1119]

So I did do the research "prior" to this post as I had said and found no definite answer. What I did do though is talk to a buddy of mine who is a GM certified mechanic about the Hummers suspension specifically and I thought id share. His advice was to do it simply by your vehicles feel noises, exc.... Every hummer is supposed to have the exact same specs but in reality it is an impossibility to produce 10 outta 10 exact to a "T" the same. So each H3, H3T will vary between 2-2.75, the max will depend on your vehicle. His advice was to do it to the best feel and lower it if it doesn't feel quite right. Thus there is no exact the risk is the same regardless just depends on your driving and vehicle. Thanks for the help.

 

[05Mudiak]

by feel and noise hmm I would go with the center of hub to bottom of fender measurement 23.5"is the number just about everyone goes by. This is proven method at least through about everyone on this forum and the other forums too. I wouldn't go by feel, what are you feeling for?

 

[digglesworth]

I don't get that either. You may get noises if you have worn cv shafts or other worn parts. Do whatever makes you happy. Just make you whatever you do, get an alignment after you mess with anything.

 

[alrock]

Gotta disagree a bit with your mechanic. It is realistic to set multiple trucks up very similar specs, if using the right measurement points and those points are not from the ground to bumper, fender, etc. Tire size, inflation, condition, etc. vary too much. But if you measure from fender lip to center of the hub you take out the big variables and you get a common measure that can be used with all H3s with stock suspensions. Am I going to use a micrometer? No, but I'm not going to accept that a 2" variance is "normal", at least when using good measuring points.

Going by "feel" won't work, as it takes months for things to break and the feel isn't going to tell you that. There is significant risk with raising too high, and those risks directly affect your wallet. Here are the two big issues with raising the front end too much:
1) Your CV angles are too sharp, which may lead to premature failure of the CVs as well as more frequent tearing of the boots
2) Your tie rod angles to the rack are too sharp, which leads to the tie rods pushing up on the rack on bumps instead of properly pivoting.

I used to keep my truck at 24" from center of hub to fender and I wore out the rack. I was lucky to not ruin a CV, though I probably tore about four boots. I did wear out a steering rack in about 40,000 miles. I now keep my truck at 23.25" and my replacement rack has lasted about 90,000 miles so far.

 

[Nevets1119]

by feel and noise hmm I would go with the center of hub to bottom of fender measurement 23.5"is the number just about everyone goes by. This is proven method at least through about everyone on this forum and the other forums too. I wouldn't go by feel, what are you feeling for?

Ya thats the standard measurement so I assumed from the thread everyone knew that. Also I assumed when I said "noise and feel" you'd understand I meant while driving "after" doing the measurements because you have to know how high you went to know where your peak point is exc... and if it didn't feel right to lower it which is with everything. The point to what he said was "there is no exact measurement for this vehicle" every vehicle will line up different. Thanks for the input though. You feel for sudden cambering of the wheel during slower smooth flat ground turns(like going around your neighbor hood block depending on where you live) it shouldn't randomly camber over to one side drastically you should be able to have control over it through the whole turn, also severe vibration in the steering wheel exc.... the noises will be clanking, chattering, extra vibration in the CV joints and control arms can cause squeaking that may not have been there before, all can be indications of your vehicle being too high. And again an alignment is standard. Thanks

 

[Nevets1119]

Gotta disagree a bit with your mechanic. It is realistic to set multiple trucks up very similar specs, if using the right measurement points and those points are not from the ground to bumper, fender, etc. Tire size, inflation, condition, etc. vary too much. But if you measure from fender lip to center of the hub you take out the big variables and you get a common measure that can be used with all H3s with stock suspensions. Am I going to use a micrometer? No, but I'm not going to accept that a 2" variance is "normal", at least when using good measuring points.

Going by "feel" won't work, as it takes months for things to break and the feel isn't going to tell you that. There is significant risk with raising too high, and those risks directly affect your wallet. Here are the two big issues with raising the front end too much:
1) Your CV angles are too sharp, which may lead to premature failure of the CVs as well as more frequent tearing of the boots
2) Your tie rod angles to the rack are too sharp, which leads to the tie rods pushing up on the rack on bumps instead of properly pivoting.

I used to keep my truck at 24" from center of hub to fender and I wore out the rack. I was lucky to not ruin a CV, though I probably tore about four boots. I did wear out a steering rack in about 40,000 miles. I now keep my truck at 23.25" and my replacement rack has lasted about 90,000 miles so far.

I should have phrased things better but with the DIY ability on here that everyone seems to portray I assumed you'd understand. Going to high is obviously wrong. only reason I asked him is bc no one can give a straight answer to whats to high. I know what the risk are which is why after doing a bunch of research found it needed to ask again bc the answers were not confirmed nor consistant.(still aren't) I in NO way mean to be rude Alrock, but if when you were at 24" and you didn't notice it was to high you should have done more research and measurements. Heres what I did, I took measurements of the CV joints control arms, shocks, and torsion bar length and calculated angles(equation can be found online google or I can supply for those who don't know how to get the measurements, its Geometry, trig can be used also) then I went to 24" as you did, before even driving I remeasured the angle of the CV joints exc.... It seemed ok but as I drove down the street and when turning the wheel uncomfortably cambered and there was a lot of squeaking and groaning noises I didn't have prior to, after that I don't understand how anyone would drive at that hieght the over all feel and sound of suspension is terrible(yes sound, any new noise that wasn't there before if you cant pin point where its at or whats making it its probly bad) the likely hood of breaking something is drastically higher. So I dropped to 23.75 remeasured once again drove exc... I feel it'd be ok at that height but with the weight that is in front I dropped to 2.5 to be safe. the rear is at 2.75 stock now anyway. I ordered front & rear shock extenders and new shocks also ordered tough country 2" lift leaf spring for rear. Will be ordering longer CV's and also adding some lube where needed so rubbers and covers don't wear out as easily. Sorry the first message was so vague I just figured if you thought about it with a mechanical sense then the thought of any new noises from your suspension especially attached to your steering rack after a mod would be understood as negative since they weren't there prior to. Sorry again ill be more specific in future post and more detailed. Thanks I do appreciate all the input and help on this site, its great!

 

[MortallyWounded]

After reading countless threads, I'm aiming for 23½" when I replace the shocks. Seems like the closest thing to a general consensus. All I know is that the rear leaves on mine are brand new though the thing is 10 years old and it's more than sitting on the bumpstops. It's gotta be better than where it rides right now.

 

[650Hawk]

Just to clarify; longer shocks are not needed regardless of how high you crank your torsions (BTW, I agree with the 23.5" spec). Tightening your torsions does not change the overall travel -top or bottom- of your suspension. That is mechanically limited. The only thing you are doing is changing the position of the truck at rest within that mechanically limited travel range.

Also; at the stock position, the truck is supposed to be sitting on those bump stops; GM actually designed them to be an active part of the suspension. Many who have cranked their torsions have installed taller bump stops (trail duty?) to get that active part back and to lessen the braking front end dive when the torsions are cranked, although I personally have not felt the need.

 

[alrock]

Keep an eye on it after you level it as it's also possible that the front torsion bars could be worn out. They are springs just like the rear. I thought there was a slight gap between the bump stops/jouncners and the control arms but I could be mistaken. My worn out torsion bars could not hold a height. Set them at 23.5 and they'd be down a few days later.

 

[SlcHummer]

Keep an eye on it after you level it as it's also possible that the front torsion bars could be worn out. They are springs just like the rear. I thought there was a slight gap between the bump stops/jouncners and the control arms but I could be mistaken. My worn out torsion bars could not hold a height. Set them at 23.5 and they'd be down a few days later.

I think I was/am having a similar issue on my rig, although fault of my own because i added an ARB bumper with a 9500lbs steel cable winch. I had to re-crank the torsion bars about 6 times, driving after each crank, to get the bars to hold the additional weight. I've driven it a few times now and it's holding fine so far but I'm a bit worried I had to crank these stock 06 torsion bars too much and with > 160k miles they may not be up to the task of Moab next year. The passenger side torsion bar is also significantly rusted because the top layer of paint peeled, which I think was influenced by cranking/twisting the torsion bars.

I recently purchased some used torsion bars from an Alpha model which look to be in MUCH better condition than my 06 torsion bars (thanks Korby). I'm hoping I can get these swapped in relatively soon to help support the additional front end weight that I added to my rig.

 

[alrock]

SLC, that's exactly what I did. I put in Alpha bars to help accommodate the weight of the winch and winch bumper.

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