Neo
Badfish
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great job Shorty :wink: it looks like a different truck all cleaned up , i was used to that flat black with a tint of Moab look ... :cheers:
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Squeakys spring over...
- Thread starter 06 H3
- Start date
MTUH3
Well-Known Member
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- 315
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- Plymouth, MI
Yeah, parts are all here... just finding the time to get her in the garage. Mine will take a little longer to finish.
06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
- Messages
- 9,505
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- Meridian, ID
HOLY ****! It flexs like no bodys damn business!!!!
06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
- Messages
- 9,505
- Location
- Meridian, ID
I have a video and some pics. I had a small amount done today. I got the fat o-rings to put on the speed sensors to stop the leak. I pulled the diff cover inspected everything, it all looks good and did a diff fluid change. Pulled off the sway bar and holy ****! She flexes so well! My brother even admits I can out flex his rear suspension now. Woohoo! I still had some more to go and all the tires were still planted but I didnt wanna push my luck with the stock brakelines and speed sensors still not pulled out all the way and I want my welds to be checked out but the flexing out I did do was amazing. I pulled the one bumpstop so I didnt pinch a line but I cant wait to bumpstop it correctly and use some more down travel that I had. I am really pumped to throw this thing through its paces. I may go to a legit RTI ramp once its completely ready.
MTUH3
Well-Known Member
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- 315
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- Plymouth, MI
Now I have some more motivation. I have the fuel tank out and all the lines disconnected from the drivers side of the axle. Corrosion has made things tougher. I will have some hardware and a brake line to replace to far.
06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
- Messages
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- Meridian, ID
Corrosion always makes things tougher...luckily for us in california we don't have to deal with that
06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
- Messages
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- Meridian, ID
****ty picture but I pulled out the bumpstop when I flexed out so the bumpstop wouldnt pinch the brakeline that is temporarily ran over the spring not under. This looks like a concern. Is this bad that when one side is flexed upward I have the spring totally bent a way it normally wouldnt bend. I am sure once I use the bumpstops it wont happen but I was just checking to see how bad this could be.
JonBishop
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 724
- Location
- Glendora, CA
ok i want my 3 like that now you have me jealous..... really jealous!!! hahaha sweet rig!!!!!!!!!!
06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
- Messages
- 9,505
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- Meridian, ID
lol thanks man, I really appreciate it. Lets not forget we all start somewhere, and with time you will get there!
06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
- Messages
- 9,505
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- Meridian, ID
Bumping this thread! I will do a full write up in a few hours after I get off work. It worked awesome
07Custom
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 338
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico
Geez...I'm such a scared bitch hahaha I want a SOA so badly to fix my sagging rear end...but I won't touch the dang thing without help. Someone relocate to Albuquerque already!
06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
- Messages
- 9,505
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- Meridian, ID
So here is the review.
Its badass! I HIGHLY recommend this modification. So with this setup I have about 1000 miles on road and 1 off road trip. Last chance canyon is intermediate rock crawling, I dont wanna get my hopes up too high as I want to test it out on tougher trails but the added flex is absolutely awesome!
The changes I made for the run was a spring over, 2nd spare behind my seat, disconnected sway bar, and new tires.
Stability: This was my biggest concern, with the setup but it worked great! I think the loss of the spare up top helped but I truly felt more stable then I did with any other setup so far. The added flex left the tires on the ground almost all the time and got rid of that tippy feeling. Even when descending an optional steep hill on the way out, I got a tire up in the air and felt very stable. The final hill, the one that Cbetts has a past with, I took the right side which is the tougher side and it is very steep, I was concerned with stability and even there I felt comfortable. My biggest issue was power, without the 4:1 I had to get the RPMs up a bit to get squeakys fatass up the hill.
Clearance: It is a huge gain. While these rocks werent the biggest, I did take some lines where in the past I could only dream of. I hope someone got some pictures of the optional line I took where my motor died out due to my intake coming off (still dont know how that happened) There I came up on some big rocks, I even clipped my new short spring hanger but it didnt stop me, in the past it would of been like hitting a brick wall, hanging me up and causing me to spin and put more stress on parts. I did it with relative ease once craig spotted me, with a stock setup I think it would have been very difficult to do.
Welding: This is more personal but the welds were my biggest concern. For the spring hangers the welds held up, which makes me much more confident. I know I am a new fabricator and some questioned the strength and even the concern on trusting a weld that is holding up your axle and suspension. I am now very confident with the spring hangers, I clipped em on a rock which definitely tests the strength and it held up great! A+ for that
Shock mounts/shocks/bumpstops: I have not bumpstopped the rear suspension prior to this run, the shocks I am running are not ideal for this setup. With about 1 inch of up travel and no bumpstops, from what I have read and searched the load/force will go to the shock mount when bottoming out instead of the bumpstop taking the force. On the way in and out of the trail there is a sandy road to pick up some speed with smaller whoops, on the way in I took it slow and had no issues. On the way out I assume I just bottomed out and it took out the shock mount right off the rear axle tube. I took the shock off and still drove home. I need new shocks, bumpstop it correctly, and maybe even throw on a gusset to increase strength and it shouldnt happen again. Even though I did get good penetration when welding on the mounts the surface area to weld is minimal (about 1 in bead on each side.) Just doing some minimal changes I should be good to go.
Cons: I found one con on the entire trail and that is bounce. It only happened once and while I didnt have this issue on the final hill climb it showed up on the optional climb that portager, my brother and I took. I hit some loose rock and got much more bounce then I ever had before. Craig mentioned it may be the soft springs that the H3 have. I will watch out for that issue again in the future and if that continues I may talk to bebe and speedy and see what kind of custom spring pack they have.
Overall: It rides great on the street and kicks ass offroad and seeing this was my first suspension mod I did that isnt a kit and is somewhat custom work, with cutting, welding, etc. I am beyond pleased with the final result. I didnt end up on a tow truck, which was my goal! so I would say this mod gets an A+ in my book, SO FAR. More reviews will come as I get into more offroading situations.
For the front I am not ready financially, have enough time or experience to go custom. Some may believe I am polishing a turd but with I have some simple improvements to the front that will compliment the rear improvements. Throw some trail doors on and come up with a solution for fenders I will be ready to start doing tougher stuff and not worry about the body.
Stay tuned!
Its badass! I HIGHLY recommend this modification. So with this setup I have about 1000 miles on road and 1 off road trip. Last chance canyon is intermediate rock crawling, I dont wanna get my hopes up too high as I want to test it out on tougher trails but the added flex is absolutely awesome!
The changes I made for the run was a spring over, 2nd spare behind my seat, disconnected sway bar, and new tires.
Stability: This was my biggest concern, with the setup but it worked great! I think the loss of the spare up top helped but I truly felt more stable then I did with any other setup so far. The added flex left the tires on the ground almost all the time and got rid of that tippy feeling. Even when descending an optional steep hill on the way out, I got a tire up in the air and felt very stable. The final hill, the one that Cbetts has a past with, I took the right side which is the tougher side and it is very steep, I was concerned with stability and even there I felt comfortable. My biggest issue was power, without the 4:1 I had to get the RPMs up a bit to get squeakys fatass up the hill.
Clearance: It is a huge gain. While these rocks werent the biggest, I did take some lines where in the past I could only dream of. I hope someone got some pictures of the optional line I took where my motor died out due to my intake coming off (still dont know how that happened) There I came up on some big rocks, I even clipped my new short spring hanger but it didnt stop me, in the past it would of been like hitting a brick wall, hanging me up and causing me to spin and put more stress on parts. I did it with relative ease once craig spotted me, with a stock setup I think it would have been very difficult to do.
Welding: This is more personal but the welds were my biggest concern. For the spring hangers the welds held up, which makes me much more confident. I know I am a new fabricator and some questioned the strength and even the concern on trusting a weld that is holding up your axle and suspension. I am now very confident with the spring hangers, I clipped em on a rock which definitely tests the strength and it held up great! A+ for that
Shock mounts/shocks/bumpstops: I have not bumpstopped the rear suspension prior to this run, the shocks I am running are not ideal for this setup. With about 1 inch of up travel and no bumpstops, from what I have read and searched the load/force will go to the shock mount when bottoming out instead of the bumpstop taking the force. On the way in and out of the trail there is a sandy road to pick up some speed with smaller whoops, on the way in I took it slow and had no issues. On the way out I assume I just bottomed out and it took out the shock mount right off the rear axle tube. I took the shock off and still drove home. I need new shocks, bumpstop it correctly, and maybe even throw on a gusset to increase strength and it shouldnt happen again. Even though I did get good penetration when welding on the mounts the surface area to weld is minimal (about 1 in bead on each side.) Just doing some minimal changes I should be good to go.
Cons: I found one con on the entire trail and that is bounce. It only happened once and while I didnt have this issue on the final hill climb it showed up on the optional climb that portager, my brother and I took. I hit some loose rock and got much more bounce then I ever had before. Craig mentioned it may be the soft springs that the H3 have. I will watch out for that issue again in the future and if that continues I may talk to bebe and speedy and see what kind of custom spring pack they have.
Overall: It rides great on the street and kicks ass offroad and seeing this was my first suspension mod I did that isnt a kit and is somewhat custom work, with cutting, welding, etc. I am beyond pleased with the final result. I didnt end up on a tow truck, which was my goal! so I would say this mod gets an A+ in my book, SO FAR. More reviews will come as I get into more offroading situations.
For the front I am not ready financially, have enough time or experience to go custom. Some may believe I am polishing a turd but with I have some simple improvements to the front that will compliment the rear improvements. Throw some trail doors on and come up with a solution for fenders I will be ready to start doing tougher stuff and not worry about the body.
Stay tuned!
4speedfunk
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 4,250
- Location
- Tardville
06H3...great review. I got the same mod, and agree 100%.
If you hit hard enough to pop the lower shock mount off the axle tube...that shock is probably blown, bent, or both. On the upside...perhaps a sloppy weld may have saved it...like a safety pop-off bracket? -LOL I had similar concerns with a few of my welds but, so far...everything is holding up good on mine. BTW...I welded my forward hangers on with the fuel tank in place. So the weld on the inboard side of left hanger is not quite up to par with what I wanted....but, I made sure to get the other three-sides welded-up real good. It ain't goin anywhere.
IMO...flexing to the point where the spring becomes arched backwards is big no-no. I can't see it in your photo...but the shackle was probably laid back to the point where it was bottomed out against the frame (or bumper). Once that happens, the spring mounts effectively become "solid", and the spring itself will be forced to compensate for its own growth. It can bind to the point where it will bend, and puts a huge amount of stress on your bushings. I'de put a bump on there to stop the travel before the spring goes completely flat, or before the shackle bottoms out...whichever comes first. Then flex your truck all the way to the bumps, and measure the bolt-to-bolt length on the shock mounts. Buy some new shocks two inches shorter. That will insure you got some extra shaft length past the bottom-out point. Let the droop be what it will be (it will probably be limited by your shocks). The only way to get more travel at this point is to put hoops up thru the floor...or weld longer mounts to the axle (which hang lower). Neither of these solutions is very practical for most of us...and even though you end up with shorter shocks, they flex will be more than enough.
The bouncing you speak about is probably a shock issue...and not a spring rate issue. Oscillating bounce can break parts for sure, I suspect the shocks. I found this out when I took my H3 for a test-drive without shocks (bad idea...never attempt this!). I put Fox's on mine and I'm pretty happy with them. They have out-board reservoirs but in hindsight...I think standard mono-tubes would've done the trick just as well. I don't do enough long-travel, flexy wheeling to really take full-advantage of the reservoirs.
If you hit hard enough to pop the lower shock mount off the axle tube...that shock is probably blown, bent, or both. On the upside...perhaps a sloppy weld may have saved it...like a safety pop-off bracket? -LOL I had similar concerns with a few of my welds but, so far...everything is holding up good on mine. BTW...I welded my forward hangers on with the fuel tank in place. So the weld on the inboard side of left hanger is not quite up to par with what I wanted....but, I made sure to get the other three-sides welded-up real good. It ain't goin anywhere.
IMO...flexing to the point where the spring becomes arched backwards is big no-no. I can't see it in your photo...but the shackle was probably laid back to the point where it was bottomed out against the frame (or bumper). Once that happens, the spring mounts effectively become "solid", and the spring itself will be forced to compensate for its own growth. It can bind to the point where it will bend, and puts a huge amount of stress on your bushings. I'de put a bump on there to stop the travel before the spring goes completely flat, or before the shackle bottoms out...whichever comes first. Then flex your truck all the way to the bumps, and measure the bolt-to-bolt length on the shock mounts. Buy some new shocks two inches shorter. That will insure you got some extra shaft length past the bottom-out point. Let the droop be what it will be (it will probably be limited by your shocks). The only way to get more travel at this point is to put hoops up thru the floor...or weld longer mounts to the axle (which hang lower). Neither of these solutions is very practical for most of us...and even though you end up with shorter shocks, they flex will be more than enough.
The bouncing you speak about is probably a shock issue...and not a spring rate issue. Oscillating bounce can break parts for sure, I suspect the shocks. I found this out when I took my H3 for a test-drive without shocks (bad idea...never attempt this!). I put Fox's on mine and I'm pretty happy with them. They have out-board reservoirs but in hindsight...I think standard mono-tubes would've done the trick just as well. I don't do enough long-travel, flexy wheeling to really take full-advantage of the reservoirs.
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06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
- Messages
- 9,505
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- Meridian, ID
Thanks CJ! I did some searching around on older heep forums for jeeps that run leaf springs. The opinion on negative arching the spring is around 50/50. Some think it's the worst possible thing and others say they have been doing it for years with no problems. To play it safe I will bump it before negative arch. I have heard of leaves actually breaking, even Carl had his H3 main leaf break and I'm sure negative arch doesn't help the case.
As for the shocks, I hope that's the problem it's cheaper and way less time consuming! Lol IMO I have always thought the rancho shocks were garbage. If I really wanted to get every inch of flex possible without compromising clearance or cutting through the floor I have 2 options the evo lever for leaf springs that mount the shock horizontal to the leaf. It's a lot of work for an extra 2 in of travel or the new 6pak shocks. They can give u more travel in a shorter shock to avoid cutting through the floorboard. Interesting design but pricey. Even now the shocks are my limiting factor to travel. Up travel is about one inch and I think 3-4 is good enough for me. Then they leave me with 6 down and currently with the 9in of down travel with the crappy ranchos I still have more to go.
What's left is basically shocks and bumping it. I really wanna hit John Bull next. That trail left me on a strap 3 times...now I'm shooting for zero times. From what I have seen I don't think an H3 made it unstrapped on that trail yet.
As for the shocks, I hope that's the problem it's cheaper and way less time consuming! Lol IMO I have always thought the rancho shocks were garbage. If I really wanted to get every inch of flex possible without compromising clearance or cutting through the floor I have 2 options the evo lever for leaf springs that mount the shock horizontal to the leaf. It's a lot of work for an extra 2 in of travel or the new 6pak shocks. They can give u more travel in a shorter shock to avoid cutting through the floorboard. Interesting design but pricey. Even now the shocks are my limiting factor to travel. Up travel is about one inch and I think 3-4 is good enough for me. Then they leave me with 6 down and currently with the 9in of down travel with the crappy ranchos I still have more to go.
What's left is basically shocks and bumping it. I really wanna hit John Bull next. That trail left me on a strap 3 times...now I'm shooting for zero times. From what I have seen I don't think an H3 made it unstrapped on that trail yet.
cbetts
NERD!!!
- Messages
- 3,188
- Location
- Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
*facepalm*
Yeah, shocks make more sense now that I think about it. Guess I was tired on the trip.
Yeah, shocks make more sense now that I think about it. Guess I was tired on the trip.
4speedfunk
Well-Known Member
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- 4,250
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- Tardville
I totally know what you mean about having to give-up on a trail. Two years ago, I broke my IFS in the rock garden at the Badlands. I went back there several times after I repaired the IFS...and each time I would drive past that same ledge, never attempting it for fear of breaking again. It seriously messed with my head. Then last winter I chopped the front suspension off and converted to the SA. I'm proud to announce I went back to that same rock a month ago and kicked it's a$$! In fact...I did two other climbs that were even more difficult just to prove to myself that it wasn't a fluke! Coming back after such failures gives an incredible boost to your confidence, and makes the bloody knuckles and empty wallet a little easier to take.
FWIW...The GM-prepped racing H3 had custom shock-hoops jutting at least 4" up thru the floor of the rear cargo area. It also had the spare mounted inside, so it was practically useless back there.
FWIW...The GM-prepped racing H3 had custom shock-hoops jutting at least 4" up thru the floor of the rear cargo area. It also had the spare mounted inside, so it was practically useless back there.
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I was just throwing that out for him to see what that looked like.
FWIW that was a Rod Hall H3 and the rear was full of this.
and the spare was on the rear
In your reference to the GM unit why would the spare be useless in the rear for a race prepped vehicle?
FWIW that was a Rod Hall H3 and the rear was full of this.
and the spare was on the rear
In your reference to the GM unit why would the spare be useless in the rear for a race prepped vehicle?
06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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Ahha! I agree. I know its cheaper to keep my pride and avoid stuff that breaks down squeaky but I am thick headed and those obstacles that in the past I couldnt get past without breaking something or denting in panels or obstacles I could only dream of are the obstacles I am aiming for in the future. I feel my suspension set up is almost ready to handle some stuff I couldnt do in the past, now I need tube doors and some hi density plastic fenders. I am truly jealous of my brothers JK fenders. Those thing are ugly pieces of **** but man, they take the abuse and look cooler all beat up. I want some! lol Width is an issue but if you can setup the sides for damage your good to go. The V notch, the one my brother did is a jeep obstacle but that doesnt mean I wont do it. Youtube has jeeps doing everything out there, its time to see an H3 do anything it wants, thats my goal. Even if it ends up with a Jeep suspension idc its still a Hummer with leather seats, nice interior and a unique off road vehicle. I love my H3 and wont be getting in a damn jeep...Im thickheaded as hell.
Hunner, That is not what I was looking to do. Rod Hall added a body lift and extended the shock mounts. I dont want any more height, if I was stock I would be open to adding a body lift like craig did but I am at a height where it is compromised. Tall enough to get over bigger obstacles but not too tall where I am about to roll over. The setup I want are these.
http://www.metalcloak.com/MetalCloak-Long-Travel-Shock-s/229.htm
If you watch the youtube video it will show what you what I mean. No major cutting with getting more travel. I went to the offroad expo in Pomona and met these guys, really cool and said they can set me up with a set for the H3. Only thought is I may have to trim the top leaf spring plates so I can fit those big box things in the middle lol.
I wont be cutting through the floorboard. I never will even if its a trail rig only. I still want to be able to hear my passengers
Didn't you say you had a cast iron diff with a locker sitting in the garage? I recommend you install that front locker and install decent switches for both before John Bull. O and I almost forgot fix the shock mount, the Rancho bushing, …
The best upgrade for off roading is between the ears! Make sure your prepared and don't do stupid $#+!
06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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- Meridian, ID
I wont I have worked on that a lot but still have room for improvement...lol I need some front end TLC. I know how to setup the switches, I just need to do it. somehow I had time for my brothers electrical nightmare but not mine...lol
cbetts
NERD!!!
- Messages
- 3,188
- Location
- Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
Speaking of which . . . you really need to fix his wiring. I know it works now but it didn't look very safe long term. Put in a proper terminal strip with fuses and relays for his lights.
06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
- Messages
- 9,505
- Location
- Meridian, ID
terminal switch isnt there but relays and fuses are built in. Your the electrical guru not me...what's the pros to a terminal switch?
I think the only reason that one was cut thru the floorboard was for a roll cage not the stronger upper shock mount to allow travel after raising the lower one.
On second thought the roll cage might be a good idea if you keep going! lol
Always interesting to see your mods.
On second thought the roll cage might be a good idea if you keep going! lol
Always interesting to see your mods.
4speedfunk
Well-Known Member
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- 4,250
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- Tardville
I meant it made the INSIDE useless. And I was talkin about us normal weekend wheeler type guys. Those photos you posted look nothing like the GM H3 I saw. Here's the one I saw in person...
View attachment 7224
I saw this at Indy 3 or 4 years ago, and it had a Corvette motor, widened fenders, scooped hood, 20" wheels, and a Rhino-lined interior. All of the interior was gone...just two racing seats and a roll bar. In the back it had shock hoops tied to the roll cage, with a spare tire that took up the entire area. No doubt a fuel tank was in there as well...but it wasn't anything like the one in your photos. Also, it did not have the external spare shown in your photos, and I cannot remember if it even had an exterior spare. I'm sure there were many of these H3's built...and this one was probably the "poser" rig for GM's booth at events and such. I heard it run, and it sounded very hairy.
Also...it was pretty darn clean. Too clean to be a full-competition rig.
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