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H3T Proven D60 set up

Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
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Raleigh area NC
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This set up was done ~6/7 years ago I had this truck for ~5 years
D60, ABS ( no lights), 6 lug( 8 lug convertible), I added ram assist.
I had it on double black diamond trails, I use it as DD occasionally, I did long distances trips.



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Jeepwalker

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978
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WI
That's really nice work. Good fabrication. Good axle alignment. Is the front axle out of another vehicle, or all custom?
How is the steering, 'jerky' or about right?

If you could change something, or any 'do-differents' what might they be?


Cheers!
 
Last edited:

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
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Indianapolis, IN
Thats a super nice build for sure and im sure it performs just as well. But like I had stated in the previous thread money was a big part of it for me (and im assuming most people as well)
Judging from the pics it looks like an EVO build?
Based off of that i'm guessing the whole build cost at least double what I paid, heck that axle itself (assuming brand new) would easily be a third of my budget. If you've got the money, more power to ya. What i'm saying is that, that kind of a build is definitely not needed to have a well built SAS that can wheel better and harder than stock.
 

Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
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Raleigh area NC
Yes it’s an EVO truck, build at same time as Recon’s H3

EVO is probably one of the best fab shops around in my opinion and I have/had 5 builds to stand behind this statement.
Yes they are expensive but you know it’s going to work.

Setting a side $$ for build itself.
My problem is d44, it’s a weak axel and not much of upgrade for a heavy truck.

I do not believe $$ will be that much more for a d60
It’s bigger and can easily support 40” wheel.
Ride high difference from center cap to fenders are ~5” vs stock T.
I am not a builder but I can’t believe that installing d60 will be so much more difficult vs d44.

In my opinion when u do it right first time it will save u time and $$ later on.
How many times Chis had to fix his D44?
A lot, when I did SAS on H2 I installed 1 ton axels and haven’t touched it since (~5 years) still doing black diamond trails.
The only reason I bough JK = 1 ton axels.

So in conclusion I have no problem with build itself (I like it) but D44 is not worth it.






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cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
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Yea I remember seeing that build now.

But like you said, expensive. My build suits my needs and what I intend to do with it. If my intentions were different I would have gone a different way.

Sure if I had the money I would have dropped 50k+ on top of the line, heavy duty everything, but I didn't and am more than happy with the outcome.

There is plenty of aftermarket support for parts for the Dana 44 that can strengthen it past the point of what's needed for a H3 on 37s.

The moral is my rig is built to my needs, your rigs are built to yours. Constantly peddling Dana 60s to everyone when they dont necessarily need it or it's not necessary for their build is a nuisance.

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Mb30sdl

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I see it a a sound advice. Braking far away is no fun.
It took me 4 day to fix front axel and recover from Rubicon.



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scoreh3

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1,024
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SoCal
All these SAS posts lately are like H3 & T porn. All of these rigs are sexy, hard core and I can’t stop looking at them. These builds are beautiful and are a lot of our dream rigs...
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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I don’t regret the D44 I had one bit. I really don’t. That SAS got me to wheel in a ton of new places that I couldn’t go before. I continued to push it to tougher trails. Then the 70 front made sense. At that point if I broke the 60 I’d be mad. I wasn’t mad when I broke the 44.
 

Mb30sdl

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Chris I perfectly understand u.
I learned my lesson with FABTECH lift on H2
After it I knew I don’t want IFS on off-road rig.

But I also knew I want something tough and easily fixable in case of breakdown.
The main reason I went with ORE is race proven builds done right.
(But usually there are few loose ends that I have to fix)
Basically I told Mel - “ build it as if u building for yourself “
D60 like a Jeep has a lot more aftermarket support and Dynatrack is 20 min away from me.
There are known weak points with Dynatrack but they address them in a timely manner.
So far I haven’t had any issues with any of their axels.
So yes they are expensive but it’s done right.

John is doing LJ build with 60s now (bullet proof off-roader as he calls it)
And is light
My 5 cylinder weighs little over 6k empty, Alpha ~7k. + ~1k load when over-landing
I don’t believe u can run D44 for long at that point
D44 with 37s won’t survive for too long
John with his JK set up is very carefully as he was with H2


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rascole

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Bellflower, CA
What about a thick tube with chromoly axle D44? I can understand a stock axle out of a old truck but Dynatrac makes a nice 44/60 hybrid.
 

jakesz28

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1,056
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Cabool MO
What about a thick tube with chromoly axle D44? I can understand a stock axle out of a old truck but Dynatrac makes a nice 44/60 hybrid.

You dont have enough room to put a big universal joint in the front axles. You can buy RCV's but that is a bandaid not a fix. I have probably replaced 30 axles in dana 44's over the years. What really sucks is when you lose the axle universal it can expand the yoke and shear the ball joint nut off causing you to lose the knuckle.
 

jakesz28

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Cabool MO
What about a thick tube with chromoly axle D44? I can understand a stock axle out of a old truck but Dynatrac makes a nice 44/60 hybrid.

Just noticed the 44/60 comment that will fix the axle universal problem. Then the ring and pinion is the next week point on a 6000 lb truck.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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The high pinion 44 is a different animal then the low pinion 44. I have personal experience with both. Night and day difference. My buddy is running a high pinion 44 with 37s and is RACING. Racing is a whole other level of abuse. He’s new to it and was a trail wheeler. He said it is a whole new level of complete disregard for a vehicle and I can assure you no one here will abuse a vehicle that hard. I also ran my high pinion 44 on 40s. The reason the LP44s have issues is deflection.

Did you know deflection of the R&P is up to .020 when on the coast side. That completely throws a good pattern out the window. On the drive side you will get .002-.003 max on deflection. Watch Carl Jantz video on it and he shows deflection.

RCVs aren’t a bandaid. They are a legitimate fix. I have run them and they hold up to 40s. They even warranty them up to 40s and 43s on the new JL axle.

Dana 60s aren’t the answer for everyone even though pirate and the internet says otherwise. For guys who want a stockish SAS H3 the 44 is a good answer and if you continue to run the trails you did with ifs you won’t ever have an issue. Even if you push it a tad harder it will be fine. Hummer drivers also tend to drive more conservative due to the fragile ifs diffs so that helps too.

Anyone who thinks a D60 is the answer come to hammers with me and I promise we will find someone on the trail who has taken out multiple D60 shafts and/or R&P’s. There’s a reason guys are building custom 14 bolt, d70 and d80 fronts now. Application, application, application. What are you gonna do with your rig? A D44 is still a giant step up to the AAM 7.6
 

rascole

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Bellflower, CA
My last work bonus went to the Thor bumpers, this June it's going to a new D44, the D60 will be bulletproof but harder to install and nearly twice the price/weight. I will never do Hammers and Big Bear, Moab and future trips to Rubicon are my only hardcore trips. I just want to stop breaking CVs. Waiting on a quote from Dynatrac now for their 44/60 hybrid. 1.5" - 35 spline chromoly axles with 3.125" x .5" wall tubes I think will hold up to an I5.
 

Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
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1,588
Location
Raleigh area NC
U may want to research their low scrub radius outers
This is pick from H2 with their standard outer
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And much larger mil spec aluminum one
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It’s like night and day difference plus they are ~16lbs lighter vs steel





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Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
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1,588
Location
Raleigh area NC
Anyone who thinks a D60 is the answer come to hammers with me and I promise we will find someone on the trail who has taken out multiple D60 shafts and/or R&P’s. There’s a reason guys are building custom 14 bolt, d70 and d80 fronts now. Application, application, application. What are you gonna do with your rig? A D44 is still a giant step up to the AAM 7.6

Well if there is people who keep fixing s..t that is clearly too flimsy for their application then they are not that bright or they like waisting time.

As far as I have been told by multiple builders any front HP axel is ~30% weaker vs LP ( something to do with a gears cut and direction)
But it give u more clearance and different angle so it’s a trade off that u have to make.

And u can watch you buddy, he will step up to 60s or 80s in short time.


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Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
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Raleigh area NC
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U are correct for front applications

It was few years ago so, maybe i was lookin into HP rear


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jakesz28

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Cabool MO
RCV's are known for making a clicking noise because of the cage design. They have started clearancing them to get rid of the noise. But you are still limited by the diameter of the axle and number of splines.
 

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
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Indianapolis, IN
Lol what?

13k??

Even if it was just the front axle for 6500 that's not "very reasonable" by a long shot!!!!

This all goes back to what I've been saying about each build being built to our needs. You're average wheeler isnt dropping 13k on new axles and then another 10k on labor and parts to make it work.

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Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
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Raleigh area NC
U do realize it’s all new
Not second hand or junkyard stuff

Arb locker alone is $800-1200
Gearing $350+

Plus if I am not mistaken
Dynatrack 1 ton combo ~$20+

We passed time when minimum wage was $4.75 long time ago
Welcome to 21st century where dollar doesn’t worth as much as it used to be
Everything has gone up 3,4,5 times in past 10 years

Decent build this days is $100+k (including new car)
Where I live to be in low middle bracket u need to make ~150k/year ( ask Dave)

U welcome for really check.

PS: we just spent ~month traveling to east coast and up to Virginia, besides fuel prices I didn’t see much difference




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3Hummers

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Central Texas
SoCal is an expensive place to live without a doubt. That said people do what their budget allows them to do and/or what they are willing to spend to achieve their goals. Most builds are a compromise. Would you rather go fast, climb rocks, swim through mud or...? Your build reflects what you want to do with your rig, how serious you are about it, what you are willing to spend, what your wife is willing to let you spend, how much time you are going to spend with your toy, etc. Serge has the resources to pay someone else to build him really capable rigs. That's cool. Chris builds his own rigs and obviously enjoys doing the work himself, figuring things out, learning. That is really cool. I suspect that as Chris becomes more and more successful in his career he will continue to do his own builds because he enjoys the process. Chris builds his rig to do what he wants it to do, he learns from each iteration. I love to work on my vehicles but my issue isn't money, it is time. Like Serge I don't have the time to undertake the types of work that Chris does himself. I don't have the knowledge level that Chris does to even attempt some of the things he tackles on his own. I have a Scorpion, an H1, A HMMWV, a 4x4 F250, a 4x4 F350 dually, a lifted 4x4 Jeep, armored vehicles, etc so yeah I do some wrenching but based on my available time most big projects go to someone else to do. When time isn't the issue I will work on my vehicles a lot more. Will I ever take on the stuff that Chris has, probably not. Off-roading/vehicles are not my only distraction. I have a farm, I like to reload and shoot, hunt, camp, etc. No one activity takes up all of my time or play money and like most people I allocate my time and resources as my interest wanes or strengthens. There isn't a right or wrong way to do this. Each person does what they can, how they want to. I wheel with people with $150,000 rigs and people whose rigs are held together with bailing wire and bubble gum. I am more interested in the people I hang out with than what their rig is. Nothing wrong with Serge buying built rigs or having them built, nothing wrong with people building their own rigs.
 

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
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Indianapolis, IN
This is largely the point that I've been trying to make.
You dont need to drop 100k on a build to have a decent off roader.

Yes the market dictates price. And prices have changed over the years, but no where does is say that prices have changed to where I have to spend 50, 100, whatever thousands of dollars on a build to have it done right.

I'm going to enjoy my build how I see fit and spend the kind of money on it that I think is appropriate.

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jakesz28

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1,056
Location
Cabool MO
Well said Dave.

Lets not forget there are rigs with 2.5 ton rockwells and they get broken when pushed hard with a heavy foot. Does that mean everyone needs to run out and build rigs with 2.5 ton axles? No.


I have no problem with other people putting a dana 44 under the front of a H3. It is a huge improvement over the factory ifs.
Many moons ago, before some of the people here started driving. I had a 70 Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 with a dana 44. It was a good 1000 lbs, closer to 1500 lbs lighter than my H3. After putting about 30 axles in it and a few sets of ring and pinions, I told myself I would never use a 44 in a full size truck. One thing that is not fair about compairing that to the H3 is that truck was on 40" tires. No slick rock, wheeling was mud, creeks, friends farms, and rock quarries or old mines. I was young then and treated it more like a rock bouncer with a heavy foot and a bunch of horsepower.

At no point did I tell someone how to build their rig here. I just stated my experience. Rather anyone agrees is their choice.
 
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