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Obamacare

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
Messages
3,713
Location
Indianapolis, IN
As im sure most of you know, the supreme court of the U.S. ruled today that Obamacare is constitutional. I don't know how this applies to everyone, just letting you all know.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 

Big2dabank

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,220
Location
Central Florida
No suprise here, what else did you expect from these liberal idiots. I just don't understand how a government can force you to pay into a system that is broken without first reforming that system and better controlling costs. Oh wait we are talking about the government, nevermind. I am ready for the south to secede from the union once again. We may have a better go at it this time around.
 

alrock

El Diablo
Staff member
Messages
10,667
Location
Scottsdale
Confused on one point: States have the opt-out right for this act, but does that mean they can opt out of their residents being taxed?
 

abearden

Well-Known Member
Messages
609
Location
N. Idaho
Confused on one point: States have the opt-out right for this act, but does that mean they can opt out of their residents being taxed?
The state opt-out applies to the expanded medicaid in the act which effectively gives healthcare to those under 133% of the federal poverty level ($30k/year right now). Basically, it's an option to let the state decide if the poor get expanded medicaid or get screwed by the individual mandate.

Simply put, yet another landmine in the bill that was "too big to read" and "needed to be passed so we can find out what's in it." :roll:
 

bebe

Moderator
Messages
1,375
Location
Dayton, NV
I could be wrong, but I think the idea is this:

We all know uninsured individuals who need care and default on their bills drive up healthcare costs.
Those of us who pay for our insurance - or are covered by our employers pay higher premiums due to the amount of uncollected costs (bills) from those who cannot afford health insurance OR healthcare.

If everyone pays into a pool, and everyone is covered, that should in THEORY reduce the cost of Healthcare and subsequently Insurance Premiums for all.

Now Roberts may have done us a favor, MAY.

If this is constitutionally legal as a tax, great.....but it's written into law as a mandate, wouldn't that have to be revised b congress to make it a tax???

So won't it have to go back to the House and Senate?

Opportunity for a re-write??
 

3Hummers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,529
Location
Central Texas
Roberts should have ruled that it would have been legal if it had been written into the law as a tax but since it wasn't Obamacare should have been ruled UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The Democrats actually argued that it was not a tax during the debate about the bill because Obama had promised not to raise taxes on the middle class. The administration only started claiming this was a tax after the determined it was a legal strategy that might have legs while they were fighting the court battles. The law does not include this as a tax, it is a fine. Roberts used some pretty contorted legal theory to determine that if it was atax it would be legal so since Congress could tax and that would be legal he would make it a tax. The law should have been thrown out and the Court should have told Congress to try again and to stay between the white lines this time.
Instead SCOTUS proved that we no longer have a system of checks and balances. We now have a politicized court system that issued rulings based on the political affiliation of the judge, in most cases, a Congress that has weakly ceded its role to the Executive branch and so now we have the office of the President ruling by executive order, czars and whim while the other two branches sit around and collect big paychecks, lifetime health insurance far better than ours and an extremely generous pension. For those that don't pay attention our government is severely broken.
Senators and Congressman don't report to their constituents anymore, they report to the party leadership. That is why so many of them vote along party lines with little regard to the public opinion of their district. The party doles out the money and directs the special interest money. Step out of line and the money stops flowing. We need a judiciary that judges based on the LAW, we need a Congress that zealousy guards it's power and role and we need an executive branch that stays within the boundries of the office and upholds their sworn duty to defend the constitution and enforce the laws of the land. All three branches need to watch the other two like a hawk. We need term limits and that should include judges and Congressmen. We need all three branches to read/interpret the constitution literally. It is not a living document to be reinterpreted by every jackazz that wants to do something different. The men that wrote the Constitution were far smarter than the ones trying to interpret it today. I will take what they wrote over a Pelosi ( "you have got to be kidding" ) or Reid or Obama interpretation anyday.
 

3Hummers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,529
Location
Central Texas
Roberts MAY have done us a favor in a couple of cases. One, by getting the other justices to agree that Obamacare is unconstitutional if the mandate is to be presented as an expansion of the Commerce clause powers he has thrown up a serious impediment to future expansion of the use of the Commerce clause. Secondly he may have helped arouse the base to elect a better President and some better Congreemen. Now the only hope for the people wanting to get rid of Obamacare is repeal and that will require both houses of Congress and Romney as President or a veto proof majority in both houses of Congress.
I sent checks to Romney and the House and Senate Conservative Funds today with the message scrawled on the note'" Repeal Obamacare."
 

3Hummers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,529
Location
Central Texas
Not my words but this sums things up nicely.



The Supreme Court ruled that ObamaCare’s individual mandate is not constitutional under the Commerce Power, which was how Congress framed the mandate to avoid a political backlash from calling it a tax.

Congress and the president swore up and down that the mandate was not a tax. Yet the Court upheld the mandate as a valid use of that disavowed taxing power. What Congress said the individual mandate is, the Court said is not constitutional. What Congress said the mandate is not, the Court ruled is constitutional. Everybody got that?

Where does that leave us?

1 - The Supreme Court just enacted a law that Congress never would have passed.
2 - The Court just told Congress it is okay to lie to the people to avoid political accountability.
 
D

Dennis

Guest
What is the difference between an ORAL thermometer and a RECTAL thermometer? (Under Obama Care)





Answer: The Taste
 

Kurt

Well-Known Member
Messages
958
Location
Orange County, CA
I could be wrong, but I think the idea is this:

We all know uninsured individuals who need care and default on their bills drive up healthcare costs.
Those of us who pay for our insurance - or are covered by our employers pay higher premiums due to the amount of uncollected costs (bills) from those who cannot afford health insurance OR healthcare.

If everyone pays into a pool, and everyone is covered, that should in THEORY reduce the cost of Healthcare and subsequently Insurance Premiums for all.

Now Roberts may have done us a favor, MAY.

If this is constitutionally legal as a tax, great.....but it's written into law as a mandate, wouldn't that have to be revised b congress to make it a tax???

So won't it have to go back to the House and Senate?

Opportunity for a re-write??

Probably if it gets kicked back or Obama gets voted out.

I'm from Canada and I find the system here a bit odd, but ACA/Obamacare isn't the way to go about it. Especially with the way everyone passes bills written to benefit insurance companies and not people.

In a nut shell you can't force insurance companies to cover everyone without preconditions without having everyone participating in some form of insurance. Otherwise people will drop coverage until they need it and then sign up, with the end result being no insurance companies left.

Sort of what happened to a few companies that offered aftermarket warranties for H1's and got nailed for 15K+ engine jobs :giggle:

I think it's odd you got universal health care but only if you are 65 or older.
 

3Hummers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,529
Location
Central Texas
For those that have not followed it there are still large sections of the bill that staffers haven't even finished writing yet. Isn't it absurd that people would vote on something before they even know what it is?
 
D

Dennis

Guest
For those that have not followed it there are still large sections of the bill that staffers haven't even finished writing yet. Isn't it absurd that people would vote on something before they even know what it is?

Those kind of people are known as 'Liberals"..or better yet.."Clueless"

Example:
[video=youtube;NyvqhdllXgU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvqhdllXgU[/video]

[video=youtube;fVX-c07uefc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVX-c07uefc&feature=related[/video]
 

MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
The two party system is an illusion. There is no real difference. It's all just play-fighting to keep the masses happy and caged. :hypno

I've been saying this for years, but I got tired of having to defend this position against an endless stream of morons who say "That's not true!!!". Fact is, the United States is a one party system: The wealthy, powerful elite. Don't believe me? Do some research and find out who our last non-millionaire president was. Or how many sitting senators are NOT millionaires. Or how many representatives are not millionaires. These folks are supposed to represent We the People, but they are so divorced from our reality and too concerned with their own self interests and furthering their own agendas.

I could be wrong, but I think the idea is this:

We all know uninsured individuals who need care and default on their bills drive up healthcare costs.
Those of us who pay for our insurance - or are covered by our employers pay higher premiums due to the amount of uncollected costs (bills) from those who cannot afford health insurance OR healthcare.

If everyone pays into a pool, and everyone is covered, that should in THEORY reduce the cost of Healthcare and subsequently Insurance Premiums for all.

Now Roberts may have done us a favor, MAY.

If this is constitutionally legal as a tax, great.....but it's written into law as a mandate, wouldn't that have to be revised b congress to make it a tax???

So won't it have to go back to the House and Senate?

Opportunity for a re-write??

Whether or not healthcare is broken is irrelevant to the argument of Obamacare. The argument is, is it Constitutional? It doesn't matter if its good or bad, right or wrong, necessary or unnecessary, it is simply yet another example of unconstitutional overreach by the powers-that-be. It has gotten to the point where the Constitution is little more than a sad joke. They don't even hardly bother to pretend to abide by it anymore.

Instead SCOTUS proved that we no longer have a system of checks and balances. We now have a politicized court system that issued rulings based on the political affiliation of the judge, in most cases, a Congress that has weakly ceded its role to the Executive branch and so now we have the office of the President ruling by executive order, czars and whim while the other two branches sit around and collect big paychecks, lifetime health insurance far better than ours and an extremely generous pension. For those that don't pay attention our government is severely broken.

Quoted for absolute 100% truth!

Senators and Congressman don't report to their constituents anymore, they report to the party leadership. That is why so many of them vote along party lines with little regard to the public opinion of their district. The party doles out the money and directs the special interest money. Step out of line and the money stops flowing. We need a judiciary that judges based on the LAW, we need a Congress that zealousy guards it's power and role and we need an executive branch that stays within the boundries of the office and upholds their sworn duty to defend the constitution and enforce the laws of the land. All three branches need to watch the other two like a hawk. We need term limits and that should include judges and Congressmen. We need all three branches to read/interpret the constitution literally. It is not a living document to be reinterpreted by every jackazz that wants to do something different. The men that wrote the Constitution were far smarter than the ones trying to interpret it today. I will take what they wrote over a Pelosi ( "you have got to be kidding" ) or Reid or Obama interpretation anyday.

Not going to happen. History has proven this. People in this country are too complacent and comfortable. It's the old frog in the boiling water routine - by the time you realize you're screwed, it's too late. Watching our country being destroyed is like watching the Titanic. We have already hit the metaphorical iceberg and are listing to starboard, but everyone is continuing to party, convinced it won't sink :(
 

bebe

Moderator
Messages
1,375
Location
Dayton, NV
Interesting.....

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/06/939...-the-right-long-term-decision-with-obamacare/

Before you look to do harm to Chief Justice Roberts or his family, it’s important that you think carefully about the meaning – the true nature — of his ruling on Obama-care. The Left will shout that they won, that Obama-care was upheld and all the rest. Let them.
It will be a short-lived celebration.

Here’s what really occurred — payback. Yes, payback for Obama’s numerous, ill-advised and childish insults directed toward SCOTUS.

Chief Justice Roberts actually ruled the mandate, relative to the commerce clause, was unconstitutional. That’s how the Democrats got Obama-care going in the first place. This is critical. His ruling means Congress can’t compel American citizens to purchase anything. Ever. The notion is now officially and forever, unconstitutional. As it should be.

Next, he stated that, because Congress doesn’t have the ability to mandate, it must, to fund Obama-care, rely on its power to tax. Therefore, the mechanism that funds Obama-care is a tax. This is also critical. Recall back during the initial Obama-care battles, the Democrats called it a penalty, Republicans called it a tax. Democrats consistently soft sold it as a penalty. It went to vote as a penalty. Obama declared endlessly, that it was not a tax, it was a penalty. But when the Democrats argued in front of the Supreme Court, they said ‘hey, a penalty or a tax, either way’. So, Roberts gave them a tax. It is now the official law of the land — beyond word-play and silly shenanigans. Obama-care is funded by tax dollars. Democrats now must defend a tax increase to justify the Obama-care law.

Finally, he struck down as unconstitutional, the Obama-care idea that the federal government can bully states into complying by yanking their existing medicaid funding. Liberals, through Obama-care, basically said to the states — ‘comply with Obama-care or we will stop existing funding.’ Roberts ruled that is a no-no. If a state takes the money, fine, the Feds can tell the state how to run a program, but if the state refuses money, the federal government can’t penalize the state by yanking other funding. Therefore, a state can decline to participate in Obama-care without penalty. This is obviously a serious problem. Are we going to have 10, 12, 25 states not participating in “national” health-care? Suddenly, it’s not national, is it?

Ultimately, Roberts supported states rights by limiting the federal government’s coercive abilities. He ruled that the government can not force the people to purchase products or services under the commerce clause and he forced liberals to have to come clean and admit that Obama-care is funded by tax increases.

Although he didn’t guarantee Romney a win, he certainly did more than his part and should be applauded.

And he did this without creating a civil war or having bricks thrown threw his windshield. Oh, and he’ll be home in time for dinner.

Brilliant.
 

bebe

Moderator
Messages
1,375
Location
Dayton, NV
From my friends at Pacific Legal Foundation

[video=youtube;6ieX70IiE78]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ieX70IiE78[/video]
 
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3Hummers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,529
Location
Central Texas
Some good points but unfortunately in the meantime a bill was passed by SCOTUS that Congress would not have passed that includes 20+ new taxes, huge IRS involvement in the personal lives and information of the public, another huge loss of personal freedom for the poeple and a step toward European or Canadian style healthcare which everyone knows SUCKS. While power under the Commerce clause is limited to a degree I am not sure that really amounts to much. SCOTUS said that Congress can't compel commerce but they can tax the lack of it. Congress can't compel you to buy insurance but they can tax you if you don't. Seems like splitting hairs for the most part. The short version of this story is that the American people got AZZ F*&ked by their own politician and judiciary AGAIN. How much longer are we going to take it? We have a President that enforces laws he likes and not ones he doesn't, that hides behind executive privilege but denies it to state govenors that lies about virtually everything with absoluet impunity because the newspapers and media that 80% of the country watches won't take him to task for it.
 

bebe

Moderator
Messages
1,375
Location
Dayton, NV
Some good points but unfortunately in the meantime a bill was passed by SCOTUS that Congress would not have passed that includes 20+ new taxes, huge IRS involvement in the personal lives and information of the public, another huge loss of personal freedom for the poeple and a step toward European or Canadian style healthcare which everyone knows SUCKS. While power under the Commerce clause is limited to a degree I am not sure that really amounts to much. SCOTUS said that Congress can't compel commerce but they can tax the lack of it. Congress can't compel you to buy insurance but they can tax you if you don't. Seems like splitting hairs for the most part. The short version of this story is that the American people got AZZ F*&ked by their own politician and judiciary AGAIN. How much longer are we going to take it? We have a President that enforces laws he likes and not ones he doesn't, that hides behind executive privilege but denies it to state govenors that lies about virtually everything with absoluet impunity because the newspapers and media that 80% of the country watches won't take him to task for it.


wethepeople.jpg

throw_the_bum_out_bumper_sticker-p1.jpg

 
D

Dennis

Guest
[video=youtube;ehYoIKTsiV0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ehYoIKTsiV0#t=31 s[/video]

[video=youtube;BagYRDEFvy0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BagYRDEFvy0[/video]

[video=youtube;mcjet2MwUR0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcjet2MwUR0[/video]
 
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MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
You know, back in the 80s we had Ronald Reagan, Johnny Cash, and Bob Hope. Now, in 2012, we have Barack Obama, no cash, and no hope :(

Kinda makes you yearn for the good ol' days, doesn't it....
 

abearden

Well-Known Member
Messages
609
Location
N. Idaho
You know, back in the 80s we had Ronald Reagan, Johnny Cash, and Bob Hope. Now, in 2012, we have Barack Obama, no cash, and no hope :(

Kinda makes you yearn for the good ol' days, doesn't it....
This is Obama's attempt at making sure Kevin Bacon stays healthy, otherwise he'll have a full-blown rebellion on his hands.
 

Big2dabank

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,220
Location
Central Florida
Where is the tax for people who do not buy my products and services? I am a small business owner and I don't see the differencre between my private business and health insurance aren't they both private for profit commercial enterprises. Kind of leaves the door open to tax you for not buying all kinds of goods and services, whats next.
 

3Hummers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,529
Location
Central Texas
Big, reconstitute yourself as a government entity and you can probably get away with it. As I stated earlier, according to SCOTUS Congress can tax anything or nothing. They apparently can tax you for not buying a car, not selling your house, breathing....who knows where it stops, if it does.
 
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