HUNNER EXtreme Steering Rack Sleeves

[Hunner]

OK, I got the sleeves. I took a chance and like I posted ordered 30 so we could get a good price.
I may not be able to justify that many again if these don't move.
I will cut some in the morning before it gets too hot and blast them.
I have a list and have plenty right now to fill all of those orders. If anybody is at a point they need these soon let me know. I will try to send some in the morning if the Post Office is still open until noon. That is if everything works and I can get up, lol.
still $40 shipped
paypal

1secondwind@comcast.net
do not gift me and do include your forum name.

If you still want a set of these please let me know.
If you no longer want these please let me know

 

[Hunner]

I still have 10 or so left and I am cutting and blasting them today.
If anyone is going to use the neoprene let me know and I will not grind the edges back as much.
I have clamped one on in the vise on the test rack and squeezed it with a c-clamp and have begun to make the gap less but they will not touch on that edge.
As I have said that gap is so we know they have compressed all they can around the rack.
The neoprene will separate them a little more which should be ok but if we can improve the engagement of the teeth, why not?
Post up your findings when installing these so I can make tweaks to anything else.
I still recommend you be careful and not move the rack away from the frame member anymore than it was.
I don't think the neoprene will affect it as much as something solid being only 1/16 even though the durometer rating is tough it will probably compress some, but could wear over time.
Wonder how many of us will still have these vehicles 10 years from now??
I'm keeping mine!

 

[Hunner]

A little update on installation that came up for TXH3T

Hunner Sleeve question/problem
So after going to my dealer for an oil change we got on the topic of the steering rack after my last replacement. I brought up hunners mod and he was interested and said he could install it for me. I was skeptical about if theyd install it right but said they could. So I pick the truck up today an hour before close and check what they did. They installed it underneath the new rubber bushing..... ok? Didnt think it would fit that way. I did the moving wheel back and forth test seemed solid but could this damage anything? Im not driving her anymore until I know for sure and Ill take it out and do it myself if need be. Heres a shot of it. Sorry for all the dirt on it, its been raining and muddy for the last week here.

Hunner's response;
yeah I can't believe you would post a shot of a Hummer with mud on it!
Wow that had to have been tough to do!! I will go try that on my test rack.
It may move the rack away from the cross member the added thickness of the sleeve but then it would also compress the rubber some. If it is tight that could work.
Have you had a chance to have someone turn the steering while you watch it?
You just need to check it often for awhile and make sure the rubber is not squirming out.

Big unit reply;
Hunner, let us know what results you come up with in your lab/test rack - I'd be really interested to know how much that puts the rack "out of alignment" or even if it does at all. In esence, this fix "thickens" the diameter of the rack to further compress and take up any slack on the OEM bushing.

The oem rubber bushing going over the added circumference of the sleeve will not come completely together but may still work when the clamp is tightened but it will not bring the rubber bushing together so it locks.

It does conform around the rack tube but like even without it if the bracket is not squeezed at the top and bottom will not touch the sleeve. The clamp will though contact the outer side of the sleeve and press it inward.

I used the c-clamps to compress the bracket ends like it would be on the frame. If it is tightened down equally at the top and the bottom it will get tight before the ends with the holes contact the frame. But it is really tight. I ran out of hands trying to tighten them evenly but cannot exert enough force on the little handles on the c-clamp to squeeze them against my stand in frame.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it is to go wheeling and then report back.
I don't want to rule out any combination different than my method of just using the sleeve for people that want to try other ways to get it tight on their specific vehicle.
It will move it out the thickness of the sleeve but the two bushings at the other end will compensate for some of that.
I can't say for sure that will be out of alignment enough to do any harm.
It will be less than the rack moving all around in that old oem rubber!
Last edited by Hunner; 08-22-2012 at 07:31 PM.

 

[Hunner]

I did notice in this shot that the oem rubber looks elongated, or that it is wide than the bracket.
This must have been your old rubber, never use a used rubber!
Other than that only time will tell. Can you tell a difference now in the way it steers and the clunk is gone?

This a shot of a new bracket and new oem rubber.

 

[Hunner]

Links for more info on this fix by others.
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?3403-Hunner-sleeve-install-with-a-twist
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/for...-way-to-fix-the-steering-rack-issue-on-the-H3
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?3494-Hunner-Sleeve-question-problem
contact me if you have any other questions or suggestions.

 

[Hunner]

I got 10 of these left at this price. $40 shipped.

 

[Pappibri]

I ordered mine from Hunner, just awaiting its arrival.. Trying to figure out the best way to put it on.. I guess from what I have read that I should use some sort of rubber around it before I clamp it down? I will go back and read, but the best way if someone could tell me would be appreciated... Thanks Hunner...

 

[alrock]

Opinions on installation vary but if you want a strip of rubber please PM me your address and I'll send you some. Considering the rubber liner idea is new (I think) it hasn't been time tested to say if it is the best way do to this.

 

[Hunner]

I still have a limited number of these left if anybody wants to get some while I have them. They will keep if you don't need them now!
The rest of these are still $40 shipped.
Paypal
1secondwind@comcast.net

 

[Hunner]

I want to try to make this clear again, if you put 1/2 the sleeve in the bracket with it out of the vehicle, then put that in a vise and squeeze on the rounded part of the bracket you can get it to conform better to start with. I don't know how to explain that any better. I also suggested if you slightly over do that and the holes are off a bit try grinding out the lower hole as it has more bracket around it, just enough to allow you to line it up easier.
I'm going to go weld half of one 2 inch sleeeve on a bracket so I can see what that does for holding things together, as an option to grinding.
I still think squeezing, grinding, add neoprene and welding for hardcore fix along with flex lines and off center extra bracket with brace to drivers side bolt would be the culmination of all things to do the most reinforcing.
It has become obvious some people are just slapping the sleeve in there and not grinding or using the option of neoprene and that just won't cut it. The clamp has to be tight on the sleeve both with wheels on the ground and jacked up at full droop.

Got some work done.

 

[Hunner]

I checked mine tonight and after 40,000 on the Alpha there was a bit of jiggle in the sleeve. When I removed it I could see some wear from the slight movement.
So I decided to try the welded one, some thin rubber I already had laying around from previous versions and see what happened.
The one I welded was a new bracket, squeezed in the vice first, then ground down the ends around the holes. Not a lot just took it down some to get more compression. I was not going to take off enough that I thought it made it too weak. I have not bent one so I don't know what causes that.
So I basically repeated a fresh installation, with a new modified bracket as I did before, add the thin rubber and it took out all the play. No movement jacked up or on the ground. I do use a couple of washers on the bolts and they still stick in the frame a half inch past the weldnut. I can see the ends with a flashlight .That saves some wrenching. The first time you do this I also recommended cleaning the dried OEM thread locker off the threads so you can start the bolt easier, especially the top one. I wanted to keep the OEM bolts with the guide end with no threads to get it lined up and started. I hate that top bolt but with patience and a ratchet with a handle that turns it goes ok. Well sort of!
This looks to me like the forces were front to back not left and right.

The pair I fabbed up today. Hunner prototype red. lol for picture clarity.
I went ahead and made me a 3 inch one but the way I have to use SS hose clamps to hold my tie rod boots I would have to do some adjusting to use them now. Just another project.

This is what it looks like when I tightened my top bolt all the way, allowing the bottom to pull away to show how much I can tighten up the package. Tightening that bolt squeezes the bracket around the sleeve and was tight all the way in as it compressed the bracket around the sleeve. I cut off the lower tab so I could pull this end towards the frame better. I also use red thread locker.

then when I tighten the lower bolt the sleeve is tight and the rack does not move.

I did use the thin rubber this time and stuck it in place with some good 3M old yeller spray adhesive.
My other end does not move either. Solid. Drove out to the humped railroad crossing and hit it at bout 50mph no movement. Came back hand checked it on the ground and jacked up. NO movement. I will see how this holds up. I just left the skid plate off for awhile so I will be more likely to get in there and look at it.
That and everything else I wrote is all I know at this point. Patience and perseverance.
By the way new tires are always great! I had to turn down the stereo on the concrete freeway. No more roar!

 

[Pappibri]

Looks good Hunner... Love the Red...Glad too hear you got those new tires. Nothing like putting on new rubbers..:giggle:

 

[Hunner]

Links for more info on this fix by others.
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/for...treme-Steering-Rack-Sleeves&p=67065#post67065

 

[Hunner]

I ran across a Hunner saying I came up with over in the BP tie rod thread that applies here...........

"This is just nuts and bolts but they have to be in the right order." Hunner 2012

After some more prototyping and welding looking for any improvement I could make, I am now down to 6 of these sleeves available for sale.

 

[shawndondo]

Like many of the others when I installed my sleeves there was still some movement. I didn’t want to grind anything down...so here was my fix. I did just like JR3T did and put a piece of 1/8 in plate behind the rack. I liberally coated the rack sleeves with JB weld after scuffing up the rack tube. I drilled and tapped three 5/16 holes in the rack clamp and inserted a few setscrews. I also drilled a small pilot hole on one of Hunners rack sleeves so the setscrew can fit very snuggly in the sleeve. I only have about 100 miles on it so far but it doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere for the time being. I am also going to either get the Poly bushings from superpro or wait for the new PreferredChassisFab design (what I really think I’m going to do). Sorry i dont have more pictures i hit the ground running with this and then thought of the camera.

 

[Hunner]

Great take on that. Holding the sleeve captive.
I tried to pickup my modded rear sleeve half but nobody was at the shop where I left it. They were going to use the large press to form me a rear half clamp.
Maybe Tuesday?
I still have some more ideas on this and will try them when I have time.

 

[Hunner]

In response to the posting by Reaper;

It would help to know if you did any grinding on the bracket so it would fit the sleeve/bushing tight? and still had it come out. If you did not the rubber probably allowed it to squirm out. That Behind the Rocks video looked like an extreme test for it.

I am trying hard to get my combination bracket finished. I went by the shop I had working on it a 6 am and it was locked up inside. Apparently they forgot I was coming to get it and were out on a job. grrrr

I needed them to press some brackets I cannot bend and weld to the back half of a sleeve. I left a rack there for them to fit and match to the outer sleeve and OEM welded bracket.
The way mine is made it will retain the sleeve for those not grinding the bracket. Not sure but it should also add some compression to the sleeve as well. Of course grinding the bracket will make it fit even better. etc etc etc..............
Hopefully we can have some options with several people working on a fix. Guess I was lucky on the 80,000+ I ran on the 06 and 08 with just the sleeve

 

[Hunner]

I'm trying not to clutter up Scorpion works thread with my responses.

I'm all for any fixes people come up with but I still want to try to offer a cheap fix to improve the reliability for those having problems since I came up with this idea that has worked for me. It's not about rush to market with a product or competition at this point, but rather making it easier for people to get this right that don't seem to have the tools to get it to fit. Maybe I'm more persistent about fitment.

You and Reaper are good test subjects, well Reaper is now. lol
I was going to offer backcountyislife a chance to test what I come up with, but he jumped ship.:no:
You all should know by now I take all this as a challenge and offer up my solutions and ideas for anyone willing to try them.
I think we will come up with some good choices.

quote backcountryislife
I thought the rubber avoided the grinding by taking up the extra space? end quote

If you recall the rubber was not my suggestion or first choice for people to try. The power of the hydraulics will force that out if there if there is any movement at all. I tried that in 06 and tried it again when that came up recently, as I have posted. It failed after one day of testing, just like before. No glue will hold that in place unless the bracket fits tight.
I think the extreme solution is a fabrication mod that requires the bracket to secure the sleeve. I have had better success with metal on metal but I guess the inner sleeve half needs more contact on the frame against the raised up portion. Lacking time and ideas when I got to that point I just ran it until all this came up again as other people finally got enough wear and tear to start having the problem I discovered at 10,000 on both of the H3's I have had. I will carefully try this metal rear bracket even though it spaces the rack out it is fairly thin. Then I want the inner sleeve welded to that. That will require making both halves that match and test fitting them to a spare rack here so it will be a bolt on mod, possibly still requiring grinding. It seems from info I can gather there are different results from as many dijfferent people doing this.
If I can get the shop to stamp out my back side bracket that may be an answer to extreme cases. I am not absolutely certain a solid mount at each end is the right answer. A bit of movement could be easier on the inner rack shaft and seals. I mean very little wiggle room. Only testing will tell on that. I am concentrating on the passenger side issue for now.
I just can't move as fast as I want to having to rely on others to bend this material.

 

[reaper]

Here's my reply, most of which was posted back here: http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?3817-The-Scorpworks-Steering-Rack-Fix/page2

I went back to stock after losing the Hunner sleeve in Moab: My 2nd Hunner sleeve was back in Colorado, so I had to go stock. And CRAP does stock SUCK!

I really think these need to be welded to the brace (one of them... the other will hold with pressure and the teeth).

Re: the stock one-- CRAP it's a bad design, there's a ton of movement back and forth on a stock rack with a new stock bushing. We absolutely need something that holds it steady from left to right. I think we need solid or NEAR-solid mounts-- a little bit of give would be okay, but it needs to be minimal and only under extreme force, not just turning the steering wheel.

Hunner: I'm on my 2nd sleeve, would love to test out any prototypes as we all work toward a solution.

Here's my conclusions so far:

1. What we need is LESS movement (none to minimal?) on the drivers side, and the passenger side's solution should match. For now, the Hunner Sleeve is the best solution we have, but we need something for the driver's side. Near-solid driver's side bushings may be the answer.
2. Also, a brace that holds the steering rack together. (It's a lot easier to replace a tie rod than a rack...)
3. As a bonus: you can get flex-lines made at Napa Auto Parts for around $100. Doesn't solve the problem but makes the lines less likely to break if the rack breaks. Seems like silly money to spend but I spent it. Hunner: maybe you could sell those cheaper if you get a few takers.
4. A center brace that matches the passenger side brace would be ideal. Hunner added this but we need a kit. Hunner, you want to sell these? I can get them made for around $150 but that seems a bit pricey... surely these can be made pretty cheap!

In the meantime, do you have any prototypes to send over? :huh:

 

[Hunner]

Your summery sounds like about what I have been posting and we are just about on the same track.

I'm working on it. My main problem is I really like this custom ironworks place I am having make the skids but they go out and install their custom railings and awesome gates and custom spiral iron stair cases so are not in the shop all the time. We had a talk today about priorities.
They don't have a die or whatever you call the piece they would need to stamp the bracket I want. So they are sort of hand making me a couple. It's scary to me to have to do that with a 60-80 ton press!
To do what I want I would have to set up a rack over there in a vice so they can fit them to that so the sleeve halves will line up, not a problem I have several. Then both halves will be captive. I may have to set up an exchange program if this works as I will run out of OEM brackets.
OEM brackets may still be available and I have a contact that is the parts manager here. I don't recall what I paid way back but will check on that.
He did say some parts are getting hard to get for the H3.
I will let you know and post up if I can get this new idea made.
For now it sounds like others are working on the drivers side. I had always thought with two bolts at different angles that was a good mount. It may be that new bushings need to be installed in older vehicles or one of the new bushings of newer material or solid. I don't know about that at this time.

It's also important to mention my video showing play in the upper a-arm bushings as adding to the problem. Higher mileage is starting to show up in those as well. I have some spares and as you may know the solution at this time is to replace the entire a-arm. I talked with some place about modding them to fit bushings but never got much of an answer. I tried to have some made and the places did not seem to see much market at the time.
Hopefully Scorpion will get some done for us.

 

[Pappibri]

Well... One thing for certain, and two for sure.. I thank ye for all of the time and effort that ye put into trying to figure things out Hunner.. I know it tis your passion, but still it is appreciated. I will be putting my sleeve on that new rack shortly. Just been too busy with exams..:gaah:

 

[reaper]

Well... One thing for certain, and two for sure.. I thank ye for all of the time and effort that ye put into trying to figure things out Hunner.. I know it tis your passion, but still it is appreciated. I will be putting my sleeve on that new rack shortly. Just been too busy with exams..:gaah:

I second that-- thanks Hunner. Pappibri: I'd recommend welding half the sleeve to the clamp while you're at it.

We had a talk today about priorities.

I hope you set them straight Hunner!!!

So... what are your thoughts about a center brace Hunner? Is that something you're looking into offering? I have the bracket but need that brace for it to bolt to, but ideally we'd have something stronger than that brace regardless. And are you looking at any more rigid mounts?

 

[Hunner]

I have been out cutting and grinding this morning.
The OEM bracket actually already has a hole in the curved part that a tiddy on the rubber bushing poked thru to center it. That could be threaded for a bolt or allen screw. A bolt with a hex head could be torqued down and would possibly secure the sleeve better!!! Probably a 3/8 bolt, so drill out the hole more and thread it. Not sure how much that few threads can handle but firm should push on the sleeve. People could do that without welding.
I robbed another OEM bracket from one of my racks and cut a sleeve. I'm headed over to the fab shop and see if I can get them to bend me a couple of the rear brackets. I know it was laying on the bender yesterday but have not heard from them.
Look back on my thread where I showed that piece I made for the center bracket. I guess it is still there. It's easy to make. But you have to "grind" the backside to conform to "your" frame weld. I guess they all close but probably vary some. I too I'm going back over all of that. It was 6 years ago I did that!
I need to consider now which side of the hydraulic fitting near the drivers side I would place it if I do that on the Alpha. I have to think on that more but it should be so it is preventing sideways movement a bit more just in case. Maybe to the far end to offset the other?

Here this is easier,
Basically it's just a stock bracket and a spacer piece of channel. However, as I usually say, it really needs to be custom ground to match the frame cross member in case there is some variation on different vehicles. I would hate to have someone use one and it put some pressure on the rack. I ground on mine until it just slipped in there and was touching the rack and cross member. There is an overlap where it appears there are two halves to that cross member and a weld to go over. Then you have to drill a gnarly hole and line it up square when it comes out the other side of that. The pass side sleeve/bushing fix probably is enough, but for people that really work the H3/H3T they may want to consider that.
It was strange when I ordered a bracket for that it was a mirror image of the normal one? Maybe for a right hand drive? Parts guy was puzzled as well.

You can see how concerned I was about fixing this after a failure. I even double nutted it and of course Loctite and torqued it. I did use an OEM rubber bushing there for some wiggle room as I was also concerned about stressing the rack at mid point. This was on my 06, I have not done this on my Alpha, yet.

Revisiting this it looks like I did not put a bolt in the top thru anything just to hold the brackets together.
Heck if we just do all "all of the above" everything that has been discussed, maybe that will do it. Better than stock anyway.

 

[Hunner]

I lost track but this must be mod option XY or Z?
Drilled and tapped a hole where the existing one was.

It takes a "Q" X 4-3/4" Ultra Cut Drill Bit-135 deg split point
3/8"-24 HSS plug tap-itm
and a 3/8" x 1/2" Hex Cap Screw (that is a 24 fine thread to get the best use of the minimal threads you can cut)
That will cost you $11.35 at a Bolt company for all that. I bought two bolts. Fergit the box stores.

I used a drill press to hold things but if you are careful and level headed you might try just a drill. It needs to be straight!
Gotta love new bits that cut curlers.

Tap: I used a handle but again if extremely careful you might have success using visegrips. Use some oil and tap and back out a little several times with care.
I don't recommend the shade tree approach but if you only got a tree????

The screw can penetrate this far but you won't get there. This was good and tight but don't crank down hard just firm. The threads held.

I used a piece of strap steel across the back to act as the fixed mount on the frame in my mock up.
I got this tight until I felt I should stop just as it quit turning. I'm not sure how many ft. lbs that is. Less than 1 uhmp?
It will not bottom out the bolt so I will use thread locker, as always.
You can see it pressed the sleeve hard and left a gap. Grinding the back of the bracket in addition would of course eliminate this. (did I say that) but doing both will be the ultimate.
Using the c-clamps for levers I could not turn the assembly on the rack.

I checked and there is room between the diff and bracket to get this in there.
The next level if I ever get the rear bracket would be to use that welded to the inner sleeve to add more retained surface area and then this latest mod to compress it all together.

This was before this latest mod using the bolt.
I repeated using the rubber before I went down to the river the other day to give it a work out and had the same results as before, a long time ago. That was before this bolt was added. If you do use rubber or neoprene I would cut a hole so the bolt presses against the sleeve. That sandwich could work with the bolt.
The use of rubber is a personal option to try!
It looked good when I installed it.

Mod on!

 

[Hunner]

Hey Reaper, you might want to try this if you are going in anyway. I will try to get a couple of extra brackets for the rear tomorrow I hope.