Motor oil preference?

[650Hawk]

NAPA (made by Wix), Wix, Purolator, AC Delco, just to name some, but for Pete's sakes, stay away from Frams.

Yes they are cheap to buy, and as such, you get what you pay for. A total piece of junk. Over the years I have heard nothing but problems w/them, from both owners and mechanics alike. They have a history of the filter element disintegrating.

It's funny how people will spend the money on good oil, and yet are cheap when it goes to the oil filter.

Interesting. I'm 55 years old, currently have 9 vehicles on the property that I maintain (myself, wife, adult kids...). I've used Quaker State oil and Fram filters since I was about 20, and in all that time I have had exactly one (1) Fram filter that developed a leak at the seam; since I pay attention to my vehicles, I noticed the small oil spot in the driveway and took care of the issue before any damage could occur. No other issues with them. My '89 Toyota 4x4 van was at 400,000 miles and still running strong when I sold it. '82 Tercel was at 350,000 when sold (still running). '95 Tercel threw a rod at 300,000 (can't blame that on the filter); replaced the motor with a used one and it is now at 350,000 (and running strong). Daughter's '93 Civic is at 225,000. Wife's '06 Tahoe is at 210,000. My H3 is at 120,000. All of those running Fram filters. Now I can't guarantee that Fram filters are good or bad, but I have been running them on at least 5 vehicles at any given time for over 35 years, and have seen exactly zero evidence to put them down other than the 1 leak (that works out to a failure rate of just a bit over 1/2 of 1%). And as for cost; well, let's just say I have a hard time with the idea that a $6 filter is worlds better than a $5 filter. JMO.:huh:

Now I will say that I run Mobil 1 in my motorhome, but mainly because of the loads and conditions that it typically sees (8.1L, 22,000lbs, pulling an additional 4,000lbs, often running in 115 degree heat for hours at a time in SoCal).

 

[Puckrobber]

I, too, have run Fram filters, among others, over the years. Never had a problem with them, although, others have. Lately, they came out with the "Ultra" synthetic line. Folks on BITOG have been swearing by them, especially for extended oil changes, up to around 15,000 miles. Sure, they cost around $9-10 a piece. But, for long oil change believers, they might save a person a few $$$.

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[GoHack]

Interesting. I'm 55 years old, currently have 9 vehicles on the property that I maintain (myself, wife, adult kids...). I've used Quaker State oil and Fram filters since I was about 20, and in all that time I have had exactly one (1) Fram filter that developed a leak at the seam; since I pay attention to my vehicles, I noticed the small oil spot in the driveway and took care of the issue before any damage could occur. No other issues with them. My '89 Toyota 4x4 van was at 400,000 miles and still running strong when I sold it. '82 Tercel was at 350,000 when sold (still running). '95 Tercel threw a rod at 300,000 (can't blame that on the filter); replaced the motor with a used one and it is now at 350,000 (and running strong). Daughter's '93 Civic is at 225,000. Wife's '06 Tahoe is at 210,000. My H3 is at 120,000. All of those running Fram filters. Now I can't guarantee that Fram filters are good or bad, but I have been running them on at least 5 vehicles at any given time for over 35 years, and have seen exactly zero evidence to put them down other than the 1 leak (that works out to a failure rate of just a bit over 1/2 of 1%). And as for cost; well, let's just say I have a hard time with the idea that a $6 filter is worlds better than a $5 filter. JMO.:huh:

Now I will say that I run Mobil 1 in my motorhome, but mainly because of the loads and conditions that it typically sees (8.1L, 22,000lbs, pulling an additional 4,000lbs, often running in 115 degree heat for hours at a time in SoCal).

Have you ever seen the inside of a Fram filter? It has a filter element w/a glued on piece of cardboard on the end. On a quality basis, it's a piece of junk. I guess I can maybe see using it, together w/some cheap engine oil, on a vehicle w/high mileage, which you don't care about, but to use it on a brand new, or low mileage vehicle, daily driver, or an expensive motorhome, especially if you are going and spending the money on synthetic oil.

As for the difference between a $5 vs. a 6, you just have to go and see what they look like inside, which I have. I believe you can get Purolator's, NAPA's, Wix, or even OEM filters, for around the same price as a Fram, which are much better quality. Like I said before, over the years I have heard nothing but problems w/Frams, from both vehicle owners and mechanics alike. They have a history of the filter element disintegrating, leaving filter material all throughout the oil passages of the engine, both in autos, trucks, and motorcycles. You can even do a search on the internet, and see pictures.

As for your motorhome, and the conditions that you run it at, here you are using a good oil in it, and yet neglect your oil filter. Not only is the oil under those extreme loads and temperatures you state, but so is the oil filter as well.

I too live in SoCal, where the local daily temperature runs on average, over 100 F during the summer. A few weeks ago I went to Death Valley in my H3 via RT. 178, over by China Lake, where I hit temperatures of 116 F. Of course my engine temperature gauge was running pretty high, especially since I was running my A/C on full, that I would turn it off for a few miles and open the windows, until it dropped close to normal, but coming back via. RT. 190, towards Olancha, where it's pretty hilly, my temperature was such, as a precaution, I went and shut my AC off, opened my windows, and turned my heater on for a while. I guess I was over cautious. I plan to replace the OEM radiator on my H3 w/an all aluminum, multi-core, which I hope does a much better job of cooling. By the way, I'm running 100% synthetic, 5W-30, Valvoline at the time w/a Purolator oil filter, but since, have changed over to Amsoil Signature Series w/a NAPA Platinum oil filter.

Obviously, you've been lucky using Frams, and of course, in the end, it's none of my business what you use. I just hope your luck continues, especially w/that motorhome.

 

[alrock]

Discussions over oil are always interesting - heck, it's why BITOG thrives! Impressive what Hawk has been able to log. I'm in the lazy camp in that I try and stay "premium" but I don't worry when I'm on Fram or other conventional products.

 

[rascole]

For those of you who say Fram sucks here is a good video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx-NT1DEtlU

 

[santafeh3]

Might as jump in here. I've had 9 vehicles Since 1989 from my little 1994 Toyota pickup (the one before the Tacoma), my 1996 Toyota T100 (loved that truck), 1999 Honda Civic SI, old piece of junk Maverick (probably pre-1900) with a rebuilt engine, 2 2003 VW New Beetles (one a turbo and the other Turbo S, my little 2003 Honda S2000, 2006 Honda Ridgeline (favorite "highway" truck) and now my 2009 Hummer H3T - never used anything but Castrol GTX and correct weight - filter wise have used primarily WIX but AC, Fram and a few others. I never go over 4,000 miles between changes and new filter. Got rear ended a year ago last May (totaled it) which led to the Hummer.

I think oil especially and filters to a certain extent is really subjective - I have never run a synthetic yet there are those that swear by it. Probably just old school (69 years old).

Regards,
Dispatched from Taos, NM

 

[GoHack]

For those of you who say Fram sucks here is a good video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx-NT1DEtlU

That's not the cheap low end orange filter which many use which is made w/the glued on cardboard ends.

 

[650Hawk]

Have you ever seen the inside of a Fram filter? It has a filter element w/a glued on piece of cardboard on the end. On a quality basis, it's a piece of junk. I guess I can maybe see using it, together w/some cheap engine oil, on a vehicle w/high mileage, which you don't care about, but to use it on a brand new, or low mileage vehicle, daily driver, or an expensive motorhome, especially if you are going and spending the money on synthetic oil.

As for the difference between a $5 vs. a 6, you just have to go and see what they look like inside, which I have. I believe you can get Purolator's, NAPA's, Wix, or even OEM filters, for around the same price as a Fram, which are much better quality. Like I said before, over the years I have heard nothing but problems w/Frams, from both vehicle owners and mechanics alike. They have a history of the filter element disintegrating, leaving filter material all throughout the oil passages of the engine, both in autos, trucks, and motorcycles. You can even do a search on the internet, and see pictures.

As for your motorhome, and the conditions that you run it at, here you are using a good oil in it, and yet neglect your oil filter. Not only is the oil under those extreme loads and temperatures you state, but so is the oil filter as well.
I too live in SoCal, where the local daily temperature runs on average, over 100 F during the summer. A few weeks ago I went to Death Valley in my H3 via RT. 178, over by China Lake, where I hit temperatures of 116 F. Of course my engine temperature gauge was running pretty high, especially since I was running my A/C on full, that I would turn it off for a few miles and open the windows, until it dropped close to normal, but coming back via. RT. 190, towards Olancha, where it's pretty hilly, my temperature was such, as a precaution, I went and shut my AC off, opened my windows, and turned my heater on for a while. I guess I was over cautious. I plan to replace the OEM radiator on my H3 w/an all aluminum, multi-core, which I hope does a much better job of cooling. By the way, I'm running 100% synthetic, 5W-30, Valvoline at the time w/a Purolator oil filter, but since, have changed over to Amsoil Signature Series w/a NAPA Platinum oil filter.

Obviously, you've been lucky using Frams, and of course, in the end, it's none of my business what you use. I just hope your luck continues, especially w/that motorhome.

A few things I'd like to address. I am running Mobile 1 oil AND filter in my MH, so your accusation that I am somehow neglecting the rig holds no water even IF your Fram claims were true. However, I ran my previous 2 RV's for 28 years total, under the same heavy load/heat conditions, using Fram filters; again, no issues. I regularly run them across the desert in 120+ degrees, over major grades (Chiriaco Summit?) with the A/C on, pulling the trailer, without having to turn the A/C off, open windows, run heater, etc. I'd say that trumps your relatively minor jaunt to Death Valley in your Hummer several fold.

You say I've been lucky... I don't consider 175+ years of Fram usage (5+ vehicles for 35+ years) as "luck". And those high mileage vehicles that I listed in my earlier post? They all started as new, low-mileage vehicles. So I also disagree with your assertion that they're only acceptable for old high mileage vehicles. If the filters were as bad as you claim, at least one of those many, many vehicles over the years would have failed because of the Fram filter at some point between being new, low mileage and old, high mileage, right? And for the record, I DO care about every single one of them, and most are daily drivers.

Yes, I've seen all of the anti-fram rhetoric, mostly fixated on the fiberboard end caps. But then again I've also seen all of the internet hype against K&N filters, and I know better since I've been an avid off-road desert motorcycle racer and rider all my life using K&N's. This thread: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/e...s-r-and-d-facility-in-dayton-ohio-111282.html might interest you in regards to the cardboard issue (although it's not "cardboard", but...). Although it is from a few years back, it's very informative. Things are not always what they seem, and metal is not always "better" than something else. Claims that a Fram filter clogged and starved the engine for oil are obviously bogus since engines have built-in bypass systems (I can also find those claims against other filters as well). Where are pics of clogged passages, along with the dissected filter? The internet has made it possible for every Tom Dick and Harry to claim something, and everyone seems to take it as truth. Then it's becomes easy to jump on the band wagon and blame any engine failure on Tom's (or Dick's or Harry's) original premise. It takes on a life of it's own, regardless of the accuracy of the situation.

You can run any oil/filter you like, no skin off anyone's nose. But simply repeating unverifiable reports of engine damage because you "saw it on the internet" is wrong. Are Fram filters the best out there? Certainly not, and I've never claimed that. But are they going to cause my engine to fail? I highly doubt it, and I actually have the 175+ years of usage to back that, on vehicles ranging from 4-cylinder imports to 496cid big blocks, on road and off, cars, trucks, SUVs, RVs...and the millions and millions of Fram filter users out there (that are not blowing up engines left and right) would likely agree. You on the other hand have only internet claims. JMO, YMMV

 

[GoHack]

A few things I'd like to address. I am running Mobile 1 oil AND filter in my MH, so your accusation that I am somehow neglecting the rig holds no water even IF your Fram claims were true. However, I ran my previous 2 RV's for 28 years total, under the same heavy load/heat conditions, using Fram filters; again, no issues. I regularly run them across the desert in 120+ degrees, over major grades (Chiriaco Summit?) with the A/C on, pulling the trailer, without having to turn the A/C off, open windows, run heater, etc. I'd say that trumps your relatively minor jaunt to Death Valley in your Hummer several fold.

You say I've been lucky... I don't consider 175+ years of Fram usage (5+ vehicles for 35+ years) as "luck". And those high mileage vehicles that I listed in my earlier post? They all started as new, low-mileage vehicles. So I also disagree with your assertion that they're only acceptable for old high mileage vehicles. If the filters were as bad as you claim, at least one of those many, many vehicles over the years would have failed because of the Fram filter at some point between being new, low mileage and old, high mileage, right? And for the record, I DO care about every single one of them, and most are daily drivers.

Yes, I've seen all of the anti-fram rhetoric, mostly fixated on the fiberboard end caps. But then again I've also seen all of the internet hype against K&N filters, and I know better since I've been an avid off-road desert motorcycle racer and rider all my life using K&N's. This thread: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/e...s-r-and-d-facility-in-dayton-ohio-111282.html might interest you in regards to the cardboard issue (although it's not "cardboard", but...). Although it is from a few years back, it's very informative. Things are not always what they seem, and metal is not always "better" than something else. Claims that a Fram filter clogged and starved the engine for oil are obviously bogus since engines have built-in bypass systems (I can also find those claims against other filters as well). Where are pics of clogged passages, along with the dissected filter? The internet has made it possible for every Tom Dick and Harry to claim something, and everyone seems to take it as truth. Then it's becomes easy to jump on the band wagon and blame any engine failure on Tom's (or Dick's or Harry's) original premise. It takes on a life of it's own, regardless of the accuracy of the situation.

You can run any oil/filter you like, no skin off anyone's nose. But simply repeating unverifiable reports of engine damage because you "saw it on the internet" is wrong. Are Fram filters the best out there? Certainly not, and I've never claimed that. But are they going to cause my engine to fail? I highly doubt it, and I actually have the 175+ years of usage to back that, on vehicles ranging from 4-cylinder imports to 496cid big blocks, on road and off, cars, trucks, SUVs, RVs...and the millions and millions of Fram filter users out there (that are not blowing up engines left and right) would likely agree. You on the other hand have only internet claims. JMO, YMMV

First of all, your motorhome has a heavy duty cooling system, while my Hummer H3 does not. It's not to say also, that if I hadn't done anything at all, that my H3 would of probably been just fine riding through Death Valley w/that temperature. I was just being cautious. I'd rather ride on the side of caution, rather than be sorry I hadn't. I've done a lot of off-roading over the years myself, gotten stuck, had flats, etc., and the very last thing I ever want happening is to have my vehicle break down, for what ever reason, in the middle of no where. I just got my present H3, w/97K miles on it, and having no service records for it, I've been going through it, from one end to another, changing all the fluids, a new air filter, cleaned the throttle body, a tune-up, new battery, new tires including the spare, new universals, etc.. Once again, I'd rather ride on the side of caution, especially when I go off-road w/it in the hot desert of Socal.

As for your not using a Fram oil filter in your motorhome, with your talking so highly of using the brand on all your vehicles, one only assumed that you were using it there as well.

Anyway, I'm only advising people out of concern for them and their vehicles that's all. If I didn't care I wouldn't have said anything.

Believe it or not, there are people out there who truly believe you never even have to change the engine oil/filter at all, I kid you not. Just add oil when the oil level is either low on the dip stick, or the engine warning light comes on.

I still remember one character, a kid I met once, using straight 40 wt. engine oil in his car, w/outside temperatures below freezing. I told him that he should be using a muti-weight oil, especially in the winter, but he just shrugged it off. One can only imagine how long that engine of his lasted.

As for my information sources, once again, I have gotten my info directly from live living people (victims), and mechanics who have physically worked on vehicles w/failed oil filters, who I have personally talked to, long before the internet was ever around.

I have also "physically" looked at a cut-a-way of a Fram Oil Filter. I even remember seeing an oil cartridge style, like the ones used back in the 50's on American cars. BMW and the Mini Coopers still use that style. I happened to have opened a Fram oil filter box for one of them at a store, and one of the filter pleats wasn't even glued, leaving an open passage for un-filtered oil to pass.

Hey, once again, you can use what ever filter brand you want to use. After all, they're your vehicles.

 

[f5moab]

Not all Fram filters are the same. Many swear by them, many hate them. However, the problem with the internet is not too many people come on and rave about how great a filter is, and most people have no idea if their filter is filtering or not. But let one thing happen and it is repeated a thousand times.

For those using the AC Delco PF61E the E stands for E-core and when that came out a few years ago, it was blasted as being a bad design for an oil filter. Was it? Who knows but the internet is full of complaints. But are they verifiable or just internet bashing of a product?

I have seen a lot of tests on filters; not just on the internet, but also in my previous professional life and there are good and bad in all.

I have generally run AC-Delco filters on my GM vehicles, purchased from GM dealer since there are a lot of fake AC-Delco filters in the USA having been made in China by someone in a rice paddy. At least via an authorized GM dealer you have the best chance of obtaining an actual AC-Delco filer, as recommended by GM. (Not required by law, but they are good filters and GM does a ton of testing....on actual filters made for AC-Delco (which at the time I was at GM were made by Champion to AC-Delco specs, but now????). And the price at a dealer is not that bad.

 

[650Hawk]

You can find failure claims from every filter out there if you look. The reason you find more Fram failure stories is simply because of the sheer number of Fram filters in use. I've never seen a Fram failure (other than the 1 leak that I've already acknowledged), nor have I ever spoken to anyone, first person, owner or mechanic, that has ever actually had or seen the horrible results you claim to have seen many, many, many times (that alone turns on my BS meter). And I can't even find much online; most of the Google search results, when you actually read them, are vague accusations that turn out to be iffy at best and outright lies at worst. The rest are simply fixated on the fiberboard ends and the assumption that they will damage your engine, with no actual proof or even evidence that that will actually happen. Before the internet was around? Does that mean that your personal experiences with Fram failures are from 35+ years ago? And you assume no changes in design or construction since then?

As for idiots that don't change oil, or filter, or use single weight in freezing weather...irrelevant stories that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. Same thing with cartridge style filters (which more and more newer cars are using); irrelevant to the discussion. An unglued pleat that will allow unfiltered oil past, although not good, will certainly not result in disintegration, clogging, and engine failure, especially if you are changing your oil/filter regularly, which is what all of your claims center around.

If Fram filters were causing the mayhem that you insist, then Fram would have been sued many years ago. Show me one documented case of engine damage/failure that was proven (not "claimed") to have been caused by a Fram filter.

 

[GoHack]

You can find failure claims from every filter out there if you look. The reason you find more Fram failure stories is simply because of the sheer number of Fram filters in use. I've never seen a Fram failure (other than the 1 leak that I've already acknowledged), nor have I ever spoken to anyone, first person, owner or mechanic, that has ever actually had or seen the horrible results you claim to have seen many, many, many times (that alone turns on my BS meter).

Just because you haven't seen a Fram failure, nor have you ever spoken to anyone, first person, owner, or mechanic, that has ever actually had or seen the horrible results that I claim to have, means that it isn't so?

By the way people, I'm talking specifically about their cheap orange model, and not their more expensive ones, which I have no opinion about.

I've never ever claimed to have personally seen a failed Fram filter, many, many, many times, if that's what you are insinuating. I've see photos of the damage(s), yes, and I've said to have physically seen a cut-a-way of a Fram filter, allowing me to see the filtering element itself inside, and to physically see the quality, or the lack of as I see it, as well as to have seen one on a store shelve, which was damaged, from the factory, both which I have. I've also said that I met people who have had them fail, as well as met mechanics as well, who have seen the results of a failure, which I also have done as well, which you noted as being all BS, just because you, personally, have never had a bad one, nor seen one, nor talked to anyone who has. But hey, what do I know, "RIGHT"? :thumbs:

As for finding failure claims from every filter out there if you look. You're right, I'm sure it does happen, but seriously, when you look, and compare a Fram filter to other brands, in the same price range no less, doesn't it make you, or anyone else, wonder, about putting it on your engine?
Look guys, I'm sorry for giving my opinion here. Someone asked, and I replied. "MY BAD!" :shame:

I rescind all claims of Frams being a piece of junk here.

According to 650Hawk's claims of never having had a bad one, go and use them to your heart's contents, and don't ever believe anyone, LIKE ME, who have researched them, met people who have had them fail, or talked to mechanics who have seen the resultant damages from it happening, nor anything stating that fact on the internet either.

OK, HAPPY 650Hawk?

JESUS! :roll:

 

[650Hawk]

Yes, you told us to stay away from Fram; they're junk in your opinion. And I simply responded with my own personal experiences with them, over many years, many vehicles, many 100s of 1000s of miles. But your response was that my experience was nothing but luck, that you've seen and talked to many people (victims) and mechanics, seen many instances of damage. You even suggested that I must not care about my vehicles if I use Fram.

Opinions are fine. You can dislike Fram filters because they're orange, for all I care. But claiming they will destroy engines is a different ballgame. All I've asked is that you show me one actual verified instance of engine damage caused by a Fram filter. Not claims, not heresay. Just one. Hell, show me photos of the damage you claim to have seen. If it's as common as you insist, then that should be easy, right? My bad for asking you to put up or shut up?

 

[GoBlueHummer]

Mobil 1 High Mileage (230K)

Used Royal Purple once and burned oil ever since.

 

[JPaul]

You're both pretty.

The fact is, if you run a $5 filter in a $10000 high performance (which also means high stress and low tolerances) engine you're a fool and just asking for trouble. If you run a $50 filter in a $2000 engine then whatever, it's your money, though $50 every 6 months or whatever is still cheaper than another $2000 engine plus the labor to replace it. But most people with cheap cars (you know, the majority of cars out on the roads) will be A-OK with a orange can screwed onto the block.

Frankly the general population drives vehicles that should consider themselves lucky if their owners even bother changing the oil at the proper intervals. Also most of those engines either have pretty loose tolerances to begin with compared to a high end, high performance engine, or after a while they loosen up due to wear. But also most of the engines aren't pushed anywhere near their limits, so a $5 filter and melted down dino blubber is going to do just fine for the life of the engine. It's more important to change the oil at the proper intervals than it is to use super high grade gold plated filters and silver impregnated oil. Yes, the nicer and more expensive oil/filters will definitely help the engine last longer and perform better, but guess what? Most people don't give a crap about that. Most just want to get from point A to point B. That's why Honda Civic's exist still.

I've been around long enough to know that everything, and I mean EVERYTHING will have their detractors and incidents of failure. If any company could come up with a way to produce 100% quality products with 0% defectiveness (and that's before culling bad ones out during QC) then they'd have every other company trying to steal their secret. Even super high quality and expensive products go through a QC process that tries to weed out as many defective pieces as possible. Why? Because they still end up with ones that weren't put together right, or had a bad batch of one component or another, or whatever. So they have to cull those out to keep the overall product quality high that is reaching the end consumer. The cheaper the product though the less QC they do because that would just drive up the cost and they'd miss the price point they need to hit to stay competitive. So you're more likely to find examples of product failures in cheaper products. Doesn't mean they are inherently bad and should be avoided, but you definitely have a higher risk of having issues. It's just a fact of life.

So if you want to run a Fram orange filter and Walmart dino oil in your H3 that is now at the youngest 7 years old and at the oldest 11 years old and on average probably has over 80,000 miles on it already anyway and you have no way of knowing how well it was maintained before unless you are the original owner, then go right ahead. If you want to run a Royal Purple oil/filter combo then go right ahead. It's your money and your investment. It all depends on how much you personally care about maintenance. What does it matter really? No one is going to think that a $5 Fram filter is just as good as a $20 Bosch/KN/Royal/etc filter. Heck, go with the slightly nicer Fram filters that are still fairly inexpensive if your worried.

Just make sure you change your bloody oil and filter when you're supposed to and you'll be fine!!!!! :wink:

 

[amrg]

If it matters, I run the stock ac delco filter on my truck and do 6.5K to 7K miles synthetic oil change intervals. At 100K miles and had the oil pressure light come up.

Anyway two oil flushes later, had the engine out to check the oil pump, turned out in great condition. The bearings were great but had the crankshaft bearings replaced due to some wear marks. The problem was from a stuck oil relief valve which let the oil flow causing no buildup in pressure. Looking at the inside of the engine, there wasnt any residues and the oil pickup screen had almost nothing stuck in it.
We have extreme weather here, 125 to 130 degree summer from may to august is normal during the day so the oil gets to see high temps alot of its time.

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[650Hawk]

Just make sure you change your oil and filter when you're supposed to and you'll be fine!!!!! :wink:

And that right there is the bottom line, regardless of the color of the filter. Oh and BTW, "synthetic" is still Dino oil, including Mobile 1.

 

[Ghostbuster]

And that right there is the bottom line, regardless of the color of the filter. Oh and BTW, "synthetic" is still Dino oil, including Mobile 1.

"A full synthetic oil, as the name states, is "synthesized". By that, they mean it is made in a lab, it is a manufactured product. Organic (Dino) oil is a product of nature. So the big difference is the environment in which the oil is made in."


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[rascole]

Many "synthetic" motor oils are made from several processes. Almost all start with natural gas (dino farts) or conventional crude oil (dead dinos). We make base stocks in our refinery for other companies to make "synthetic" oils. The process involves cracking the hydrocarbon chain, then reforming it. This is done several times until the desired compound is formed.

 

[f5moab]

Since the term synthetic can be used legally on dino oil processed to make synthetic oil, the term FULL synthetic does not mean PAO or group IV oil it just means full synthetic and by the law that can be group III. For an example, look at the Mobil 1 site, almost all their oils are noted as "full synthetic" and yet, from what I was told by some oil engineers a few years ago, they stopped making group IV based on PAO years ago.
However, if you talk to an oil chemistry engineer, most will probably tell you for the common internal combustion engine we use, group IV is not needed. The process of making synthetic group III oil from dino oil is pretty damn good in this day and age.
Personally, it is not the oil anymore that can be a problem, it is the additives (such as dispersants, detergents, friction modifiers, pour point depressants, anti-foaming etc) used and how they are processed and what they are manufactured with. How long they last, how reliable, etc.
Go with a major brand oil with an API SN (ILSAC GF-5) (I believe that is the latest) and you will have no problem.

 

[650Hawk]

"A full synthetic oil, as the name states, is "synthesized". By that, they mean it is made in a lab, it is a manufactured product. Organic (Dino) oil is a product of nature. So the big difference is the environment in which the oil is made in."


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Wrong. Synthetic motor oils are simply highly refined Dino oil.

"Both types of engine oil are made from crude oil that comes from the ground. The difference is that synthetic motor oils are made from more advanced refining processes and are of a higher purity and quality than conventional mineral oils or semi-synthetic oils. This not only removes more impurities from the crude oil, it enables individual molecules in the oil to be tailored to the demands of modern engines. These customized molecules provide higher levels of protection and performance, even in extreme conditions."

This same info can be found on website after website. Yes, there is such a thing as true synthetic oil (PAO), but it is not typically used in cars/trucks.